Transcript:
Morgan (00:00):
Welcome to the Healing Broken Trust Podcast. We're Brad and Morgan Robinson, and today we're talking about 20 things the unfaithful want the betrayed to know, but don't know how to say it. So there are really two camps, the motivated and the unmotivated, but both would really say similar things. Now before we get going, it's important to know that this topic can be triggering, right Brad?
Brad (00:24):
Yeah, this is a very triggering topic, because everybody's different, and what Morgan and I are both presenting are similarities that people will say who are motivated to help heal, but even people who aren't motivated to heal will say similar things. And a lot of where this comes from is a place of shame. That's a huge commonality, is shame. But it can be triggering, this is a hard topic. Anytime you talk about betrayal and abandonment and infidelity, and these relationship injuries, it's upsetting. There's deep wounds that are created from situations like this, and so fair warning, it's upsetting. And obviously the last thing Morgan and I want to do is be triggering.
Morgan (01:13):
That's right.
Brad (01:14):
Or upsetting, or anything like that. I want you guys to like me, Morgan wants you to like her, but these things are triggering. And so with that said, we'll go ahead and go on.
(01:26):
The first thing that the unfaithful would want the betrayed to know, and these are no, let me say that differently, these are in no particular order, and so this isn't the first thing they would say, everybody says, "Oh, this is the thing," it's a no particular order that we're going through. So these are 20 things that the unfaithful want the betrayed to know, in no particular order.The first that we have is, "I really feel lonely and I want to talk to you about my feelings and problems, I just don't know how. And right now, after hurting you so badly, it seems unfair to burden you with my feelings." So they would say, "I feel lonely and I want to talk to you about my feelings and problems, I just don't know how, and right now, after hurting you so badly, it seems so unfair to burden you with my feelings." And so Morgan, what a lot of people will say who've been unfaithful is, how can I talk to them about my problems? How can I be vulnerable to them when I hurt them, when I'm the one who broke them, how can I talk to them about my issues or problems or what I'm struggling with?
Morgan (02:29):
Yeah, it feels selfish, but what's really interesting is that's probably a way that they got into this mess to begin with, is keeping those feelings separate.
Brad (02:41):
Oh, it is. Yeah, that's a good point, it is a way that people get into trouble with this. They don't do proximity seeking, the average person who strays, meaning they don't go to their spouse for emotional support, and then after an affair they still feel like I can't do it, even though I recognize that may have been an issue, it may have been something that got us into trouble, I don't feel like I can do it because it's so unfair, I need to be here for you. I broke you and I see you hurting, I see you in so much pain. I see you crying, I see you depressed, I see you sad, I see you struggling so much, I can't talk to you about what I'm going through.
(03:16):
And then add added on to that is people who've been betrayed are like, "Yes, tell me what you're feeling," because when you're transparent like that, and vulnerable like that, it helps me with forgiveness, it helps me have empathy, it helps me see you in a more better light. But people who've broken trust are like, "I can't do that, I can't do that, because that's just wrong, I need to be here only for you." So that's what they think.
Morgan (03:45):
That's really good. Okay, so the second one is, "I do want to focus on the issues that we had prior in our relationship, but that's because I don't understand how necessary it is to first focus on healing from the affair. I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings, I just know we have to start somewhere." So that's a big misnomer or misconception about marriage counseling, that we've got to work on the marriage. Well, that's true, but we can't ignore the affair issues, which is often a problem.
Brad (04:17):
Yeah, and that's where our workshops are helpful, because sometimes one person listens to the podcast, or material like this, and then the other person remains uninformed and they don't know how to actually heal.
Morgan (04:31):
Okay, so before we get going on number three I'll repeat number two, "I do want to focus on issues we had prior in our relationship, but that's because I don't understand how necessary it is to first focus on healing from the affair. I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings, I just know we have to start somewhere, and I don't know where that is.”
Brad (04:51):
Yeah, and Morgan, to pick up on what you're saying, I know we have to work on something, I know we have to work on us. And a lot of people who've been unfaithful, they just want the affair to disappear, they want the infidelity to disappear, they want the trust issues to disappear, and often how they deal with their issues is by compartmentalization and sweeping stuff under the rug. And so if we could just bury this and make it go away, deal with those things that made me unhappy.
(05:22):
And that is not to say that we're blaming you for being cheated on, if you've had your trust broken, because we're not, because the person who broke trust had many other options before acting out in this manner. There's literally a million choices they could have made to do something different before acting in this manner, and so for somebody who's been betrayed, it's not their fault that they were betrayed. The person who broke trust sometimes felt unhappy or had issues with the relationship and they often will want to go back and revisit that, but that doesn't mean that you were the reason they cheated on you, or that you were lacking or deficient, or anything like that.
Morgan (06:02):
Right.
Brad (06:04):
So going on to number three, somebody who's unfaithful, what they would want the betrayed to know is, "I don't entirely trust the process of healing. I'm not entirely sure that me being honest about what's happened is going to help you. I think it would actually hurt us, and I don't see how I can be your healer when I'm the one who broke you. Shouldn't it be someone else who heals you? It can't be me.”
Morgan (06:27):
Mm-hmm.
Brad (06:28):
So let me say that again, "I don't entirely trust the process of healing. I'm not entirely sure that me being honest about what's happened will help you. I think it would actually hurt us, and I don't see how I can be your healer when I'm the one who broke you. Shouldn't it be someone else who heals you? It can't be me." So the average person who strays, they don't trust the healing process, they don't trust that being honest or transparent is helpful, they think, if I'm doing that it's only going to hurt you more, they don't even understand. And honestly, if I didn't do this for your living, if I was a normal therapist and I didn't do deal with issues like this for your living, I don't think I would say be honest, I would probably discourage something like that because you're only going to hurt them more, you're only going to hurt the person more, you're only going to hurt your spouse more if they know these hurtful things.
(07:17):
But the reality is, is often if somebody's asking for the truth, it's because they really need it to heal. And so the person who strays, they don't trust the healing process. And what's been really cool with these workshops that we've been doing is that people will come in not trusting the healing process, because maybe they've heard the podcast, or they've heard resources from us, but they're only hearing it from us. What happens is is they get into a room with other couples dealing with the exact same issues they're dealing with, so they know they're not alone, they're not unique. They're making new friends, they develop a community. They're still staying in contact after they leave, and they're healing together with new friends.
(07:54):
The person who walks in there who is unfaithful, they learn, oh, my spouse isn't crazy, I'm hearing other people who've been betrayed say the same things, I'm hearing other men who were betrayed say the same thing, I'm hearing other women who were betrayed say the same thing, and they're saying the same things that my spouse have told me a million times, and it clicks, it's a light bulb going off. And then they leave there very motivated, and people are having major breakthroughs once they understand the healing process. It's not enough to just listen to the podcast, you got to get around other people, so that's part of why we've created these workshops.
(08:28):
And so before going on I'll read number three again, "I don't entirely trust the process of healing. I'm not entirely sure that being honest about what's happened will help you. I think it would actually hurt us, and I don't see how I can be your healer when I'm the one who broke you. Shouldn't it be someone else who heals you? It can't be me." So I want to talk about that second half, "I don't see how I can be your healer when I'm the one who broke you." And that's one of the things that people don't get when they've been unfaithful is I broke you, how can it be me that fixes you? I'm the one who did this, how can I help you? And the person who's been betrayed is like, "It's only you that can help me, you're the one, it's you and only you that can really help me. Yeah, I can go talk to a therapist and there's value in that, but I can't have our relationship restored without you working to restore me.”
(09:19):
And so people, they stop short, they don't become that healer because they feel like I can't do it, it can't be me, it has to be somebody else. Their shame stops them from progressing and then being that healer.
Morgan (09:30):
But that's the beautiful thing about the workshop, that we can actually help them to do that, what they feel inadequate to do.
Brad (09:36):
And honestly, people are having breakthroughs. That's one of the things people are coming in with is that thought process, and they're leaving with, I can do this.
Morgan (09:45):
Yeah.
Brad (09:46):
I can do this. And honestly, Morgan, they're also knowing how to do it. We give them a detailed roadmap of things to do, and they know how to do it now. So they're not in the dark, here's a checklist, here's what you need to do, and people are healing. And it's amazing to see this, it's the most rewarding part of my career so far, is doing this.
Morgan (10:07):
Yeah, that's great. Okay, so number four, "I have to turn off my emotions and fake it so I can get through the day, otherwise my self-hatred would keep me from being able to do basic tasks." To read that again, "I have to turn off my emotions and fake it so I can get through the day, otherwise my self-hatred would keep me from being able to do basic tasks." So they're just clouded and overwhelmed with this, essentially shame.
Brad (10:38):
Oh yeah.
Morgan (10:39):
And it's really keeping them from moving forward and they need to have that breakthrough.
Brad (10:45):
Yeah, and part of what's going on is the affair, or infidelity, or series of affairs, what can happen is the person who's been betrayed, that's obviously traumatizing, we know that's traumatizing for a person. But to be the person who hurts somebody that badly, especially your mate, or your spouse, or your partner, to do that to somebody you love, that you've pledged your life to, to hurt them like that, it damages you, it damages your spirit and your soul, it damages you on a deep level. And my point I'm trying to make is, it's also traumatic to be somebody who hurts another person that deeply.
(11:27):
And so people have an identity crisis, who am I? How could I do that? What kind of person does that? This is not my values and my morals, and the end result of it is self-hatred, it is complete and utter self-hatred and anger, and people struggle to forgive themselves for doing that kind of thing. The problem with that is, is it shows up in problems in healing. Honestly, even though it's shame, it can show up in the lack of remorse, it can show up in a lack of accountability, it can show up in a lack of transparency, a lack of honesty, it can cause people to not want to talk, because they just want to forget it. And so they're hurt too, and that's one of the things that we will help people through the workshop, is how to address that, things to actually move people forward, what helps.
(12:15):
And so number five, "Being unfaithful is the worst thing I've ever done, and the hardest thing I've done is changing myself to show you I'm a new person." So, "Being unfaithful is the worst thing I've ever done, and the hardest thing I've ever had to do is change myself to show you I'm a new person." And so being unfaithful ties into what we're talking about with shame, "It's the worst thing I've ever done. Maybe I've done other things in my past that I'm not proud of, but this takes the cake because you are my spouse, you're the person I love, I did this to you, you're the parent to my children, I did this to you, and I can't believe I did something like that, I can't believe I destroyed you, and now I'm trying to change myself and show you I'm a new person, and that's really hard, because I don't even know where to start, I don't even know where to begin, and then I'm fighting that temptation to want to just compartmentalize this, sweep it under the rug, or not talk about it or not deal with it.”
Morgan (13:13):
Which can only lead you to more pain, which is really hard.
Brad (13:18):
Yeah, and you're exactly right. Forgetting stuff, and really what it is when you forget, or compartmentalize, what you're doing is I'm not going to address this, I'm not going to focus on this. And you can't address it all the time, you got to have some breaks from this stuff, but I'm not addressing it, so it's not getting resolved, it's not changing.
Morgan (13:37):
Right, there's no change, there's no difference, and it leads you and can set you up to do the same things you've done again and again.
Brad (13:45):
Yeah, that's a good point, because that's what happens, that's one of the things that happens. It may not be immediately, but I'll hear from people who've been unfaithful and they'll say, and they haven't maybe done any true self-change work, but they've made a vow, or a promise to themselves, "I'm not going to do this again, I'm just not." And their spouse isn't reassured by that, it's like, "What do you mean you're not going to do it? You said you weren't going to do it before and you did it." But they'll walk away, and I think they're very sincere and they mean it, "I'm not going to do this, I'm not going to ever betray you again.”
(14:14):
But the problem is, is what are you doing now to make sure that doesn't happen? How are you changing and growing? You just had this near death experience where you're walking away from a car wreck and you're saying, I'm never going to drive crazy again, but what happens when you struggle again? Or some of those bad habits pick up again? What are you doing now to make those changes? And that's something we talk about at the workshop.
Morgan (14:34):
Yes. So number six, "When you get angry, I sometimes don't know if we're going to make it. I think I've hurt you so much, or too much, and I've gone too far." So again, "When you get angry I sometimes don't know if we're going to make it, I think I've hurt you too much and I've gone too far." So it's those emotions, maybe they're not even able to process difficult emotions to begin with, and then of course there's the back and forth feelings that a person feels when they've been betrayed, and so anger is part of that, and it can make you feel hopeless.
Brad (15:12):
Yeah. Well, usually the person who strays there's a conflict of order, and anger and rage are a normal reaction to somebody violating your boundaries like this, infidelity, it's a normal reaction. They sometimes can see it as, "Oh God, I got to get motivated and I got to roll up my sleeves and get to work," they can sometimes see that and get motivated and do what they need to do, other times they may see that as, "Wow, we're not going to make it, I think I just hurt you too much.”
Morgan (15:41):
They can see it as a setback.
Brad (15:42):
Well yeah, they see it as a huge setback, and they see it as, "I've gone too far, I've broken you, I don't know anybody who's come back from this," and so they see it as a sign of discouragement.
Morgan (15:53):
And that's why there are other people at the workshop that you can meet and can see that you are not alone.
Brad (15:59):
So number seven, "I might have been really angry with you before you found out about the affair, but now that you know what I've done, I want you to know I never wanted to hurt you like this at all. I thought no one would ever find out." So let me say that again, "I might have been really angry with you before you found out about the affair, but now that you know what I've done, I want you to know I never wanted to hurt you like this at all. I thought no one would ever find out." And so part of what can drive people to an affair is sometimes they're angry with their spouse, they're resentful, and they use that to justify what they did. They are angry, but when they see their spouse in pain, sometimes they stay angry, sometimes they snap out of that anger and they are remorseful.
(16:49):
I've heard stories where it happens both ways, where people are angry with their spouse, they find out about the affair, and then they come out of it and they're remorseful, other times where they stay angry. But generally my experience has been is that they do come out of that anger once they see their spouse hurting. I've heard numerous stories of people who are like, "Okay, I'm ready to leave, I'm ready to go be with this other person," but once they see their spouse hurting and broken they decide, "Okay, I do love you, I do see that I love you.”
Morgan (17:21):
Yes. Okay, number eight, "I was on a path of self destruction, I was reckless and really didn't care if I lived or died when the affair was going on." So, "I was on a path of self destruction, I was reckless and really didn't care if I lived or died when the affair was going on." So it's this destructive path.
Brad (17:40):
Yeah, well people who have affairs aren't happy people, they're not joyful people, they're not fulfilled people, they're broken and they're searching for something. And they are having an identity crisis. They are having issues, but they're not happy people, and it's just another way that people, who may be being self-destructive-
Morgan (18:04):
To escape.
Brad (18:05):
To escape, they're being self-destructive, and exactly, they're escaping. They're lost, they're broken, and they don't know how to get out of it, and that's where the affair comes in.
(18:17):
So number nine is, "I know you don't believe me, but I am desperate to make this work. I know you don't believe me, but I am desperate to make this work." The people who stray oftentimes want to make this work. They struggle, they don't know what to do, they don't know how to do it, but they do want to make this work, and they are lost, they are broken as well, they just don't know what to do that will actually make this work. And really the only tool they have, Morgan, is compartmentalization. So that turns into minimization, defensiveness, sweeping under the rug, "Let's just move on, I promise I won't do it again. Please forgive me, let's move on." The only tool they have is minimization, compartmentalization, sweep it under the rug, avoidance is their only tool. But they are desperate to make it work, but the problem is that's their only tool. And that's where it's useful to get help, and we try to supply those tools to help you guys with different programs and workshops that we have. So number 10.
Morgan (19:16):
All right, number 10, "Even though I don't show it as much as you'd like, I really am sorry for what I did. So even though I don't show it as much as I'd like, or as you'd like, I really am sorry for what I did, but maybe I just don't know how to express that sorrow in a way that I believe that you will be able to accept."
Brad (19:38):
Yeah, this is probably the one I hear the most often from people is, like you said, "Even though I don't show it as much as you would like me to, I really am sorry for what I did." And usually the person who's been unfaithful, they'll apologize, but they don't apologize enough, they don't express their remorse enough, that they're sorry enough, and so the person who's been betrayed is like, "Okay, what's going on here? Where are you at? I don't know where you're at." And so that's something that needs to be expressed often.
Morgan (20:09):
So by expressing sorrow often you're saying to them, clarify what you mean.
Brad (20:16):
Yeah, well when you're expressing sorrow often you're saying, "I'm thinking about it too."
Morgan (20:20):
Oh yeah.
Brad (20:20):
"This is still on my mind, I'm still sorry for what I did," and it really communicates trustworthiness, it communicates I'm thinking about you, It communicates I'm thinking about you, but also I'm here with you, I'm broken over this too, I'm embarrassed by what I did too.
Morgan (20:40):
Yeah, and it doesn't necessarily mean groveling all the time, that's not what we're saying, it just means that, "Hey, I'm with you, I'm here with you, I see you, I care about this," and that sort of thing.
Brad (20:51):
Yeah, that's a perfect way to put it, it communicates you're not alone in this, I'm with you in this.
(20:57):
Number 11, "I can't begin to feel better until I know you're starting to feel better. I can't begin to feel better until I know you're starting to feel better." And a lot of shame, we've talked about a theme in these things that people who've been unfaithful feel is toxic shame, a lot of that toxic shame doesn't begin to get better until you see your broken, hurt spouse starting to get better.
Morgan (21:21):
Yeah, it's encouraging to see them starting to feel better, you can see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Brad (21:28):
Yeah, good people will feel things like guilt and shame, and they have a conscience. And so when I see you hurting and broken and struggling, I feel bad, and that's really evidence that you're a good person, that you have a conscience. The problem is, it can become a part of the negative cycle or feedback loop, because I feel so much shame I'm not doing what I need to do, so you stay stuck, and as the injured party you stay stuck and you're not healing, and I see that, and I see you struggling with sadness and depression and anger, and things like that, obsession, I get more ashamed because I see you not getting better. But it's a self fulfilling prophecy, I'm not doing anything so you're not getting better, because you're not getting better I stay stuck, and we just go through this negative cycle.
Morgan (22:19):
Yes, absolutely. Okay, so number 12, "I wrestle with shame and feeling extremely angry with myself and don't even know how to begin to forgive myself for what I've done. So I wrestle with shame and feeling extremely angry with myself and don't even know how to begin to forgive myself for what I've done." So we've talked quite a bit about that throughout this whole program even.
Brad (22:41):
Yeah, it can take a while for people to forgive themselves completely, and that's something we help people with.
(22:51):
Number 13, "I don't answer your questions because I'm trying to forget what I've done." That's real important.
Morgan (22:56):
Yes.
Brad (22:57):
And so, "I don't answer your questions, I avoid, I minimize, I get defensive, I tell partial truths, because I'm trying to forget those things that I've done. I want to feel like I'm a good person, I want to compartmentalize this, I want to feel like I'm not that person that we're describing, when we talk about this and you ask me questions, I want to kill that person too, I don't like that person either."
Morgan (23:23):
And that's why it's so important to separate who you are from what you're doing. You are not what you've done. Now if you can keep doing the same thing over and over, your personality can shift and change, but you are still not what you've done, you are who you are.
Brad (23:39):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Morgan (23:41):
You're separate from that.
Brad (23:43):
Yeah. It's not your identity, your identity can change by behavior changes. Your identity can change by habit and behavior changes, because that's really what shapes our identity, is the habits that we have, the things that we do shapes our identity. And it can be an identity of I'm a betrayer, but if I do these things my identity can be I'm a healer, I'm a positive force in my spouse's life, I'm somebody that they need, and it can shape our identity in a positive way.
Morgan (24:16):
Yeah, that's very powerful, that's excellent. So number 14, "I wrestle with needing to feel like a good person, but know I've done the worst thing I can do. My conscience eats at me even when I'm withdrawn or act like nothing is bothering me. So I wrestle with needing to feel like a good person, but I know I've done the worst thing I could possibly do. My conscience eats at me even when I'm withdrawn or I'm acting like nothing is bothering me." So like you've said in a previous point, good people have consciences, right? We're going to naturally feel bad. There's shame, there's a healthy amount of shame, and then there's that toxic shame we've talked about.
Brad (25:00):
Yeah, and Morgan, that last sentence she said, "My conscience eats at me even when I'm withdrawn or act like nothing is bothering me," is real important because as somebody who's been injured, and on the betrayal end of this as the injured party, you're like, I just see you quiet, withdrawn, not talking about this.
Morgan (25:21):
I assume you don't care.
Brad (25:23):
Yeah, exactly, "I assume you don't care, I assume that you're over this, I'm not, and when you're withdrawn and act like nothing is bothering you, I get triggered, I get upset, because I feel like I'm alone in this." And what people who've been unfaithful would say is, "No, in those moments I'm still bothered."
Morgan (25:42):
Oh yeah.
Brad (25:42):
"It's still on my mind."
Morgan (25:44):
I'm just trying to maintain some kind of homeostasis, some regularity inside of me that so I don't totally implode in that moment.
Brad (25:53):
Yeah, I'm trying to regulate how I feel, trying to distract myself even. Yeah, that's a good point.
(26:00):
Number 15, "Hurting you will be my biggest regret in life. Hurting you will be my biggest regret in life." And people who've been unfaithful, like we've already said, they struggle to forgive themselves, they struggle to move forward from this as well. They just compartmentalize, they avoid it, they minimize it. That's their problem solving technique, that's their relationship and emotion problem solving technique is avoidance, minimization, compartmentalization, that's how they apply it to everything. But they do feel this deep regret, and that regret can be discouraging to them, where they pull away, they don't do anything, or it can motivate them. It's two ways that people respond to that.
Morgan (26:44):
Absolutely. So number 16, "I sometimes think words are enough to reassure you I'm committed to us, but I'm slowly learning it's also actions that you need." So again, "I sometimes think words are enough to reassure you that I'm committed to us, but I'm slowly learning it's also actions that you need." We got to put action behind the words, right?
Brad (27:10):
Yeah, that's a good point, because the average person who strays doesn't have a roadmap on how to help their spouse heal before an affair. They are very slow in learning, in trusting the process, like these things actually are going to help, and they're committed, but they're slowly learning, okay, You need more than words, all I've offered is words. And words are helpful, but follow through, consistency, predictability are what builds trust, that follow through and habit changing, and just showing up in a caring, loving way is what people need.
(27:46):
So number 17, "It's scary to be fully honest with you. I think the truth could hurt you and us." So one of the things that the unfaithful would say to the betrayed spouse or partner, "It's scary to be fully honest with you, I think the truth could hurt you and us." They think it's too much, "I've gone too far, and I see you getting hurt by me sharing details, I think it's only going to hurt us more." And so that's something that we do help people with.
Morgan (28:17):
Yes, absolutely. And number 18, "I know my withdrawing is hard on you and pushes you away, I want you to know your anger pushes me away, and I don't always know how to deal with it constructively. So I know my withdrawing is hard on you and pushes you away, but your anger pushes me away, and I don't always know how to deal with it constructively."
Brad (28:40):
Okay, so we gave a trigger warning.
Morgan (28:42):
Yes.
Brad (28:43):
This is probably the most triggering thing, or one of the most triggering things, I would imagine, that we've said. The average person who strays struggles with self-awareness, struggles with recognizing their emotions, they struggle with conflict, they hate conflict. And it's normal, and healthy even, to be honest, to have anger after this, because anger is an expression of, hey, these are my boundaries, you can't violate me like this, and when that happens, they can feel pushed away by the anger, but sometimes that anger is actually very healthy. And so couples get stuck in this negative cycle as they're trying to heal, and that's where it's useful, you get help.
Morgan (29:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
Brad (29:24):
That's a common area people get stuck in.
Morgan (29:26):
Okay, now we're on 19.
Brad (29:27):
Okay, 19, "I feel powerless, like nothing I do is actually helping us. I feel powerless like nothing I do is actually helping us." So what people will say who have been unfaithful is because I don't have a roadmap, or maybe because I don't trust the process, the end result is I'm not doing the things that I need to be doing that are in the key result areas. I'm not creating the change in the key result areas that I need to do, and as a result nothing I do is actually helping us, and then I get discouraged.
Morgan (29:54):
Yeah, it's like its own little cycle.
Brad (29:56):
Yeah, it's own little self-fulfilling prophecy, it's own little cycle, "Because I'm not contributing in the ways that are meaningful to you to help you heal, I don't see it's helping, and then I get discouraged, and I feel like nothing is helping us, and then I end up not doing as much."
Morgan (30:11):
And I don't even know where to start, and so they're just stuck.
Brad (30:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Morgan (30:18):
Okay, so we have the last one, number 20, "I'll always be looked at as a cheater by our friends and family. I don't think anybody who knows what I've done can see past my hurtful, shameful actions to see the real me. I'm an exile and I've lost all respect of our friends and family." So number 20, again, "I'll always be looked at as a cheater by our friends and our family. I don't think anybody who knows what I've done can see past my hurtful, shameful actions to see the real me. I'm in exile and I've lost all the respect of our friends and our family." Wow, that's really painful, it's a painful place to be.
Brad (30:57):
Yeah, because it's like, "The people who know about this aren't going to see me. You may forgive me, but they're not going to forgive me, and if our family and friends know, and if I want to have a relationship with them, that probably means I'm going to have to go address this with them as well, and talk to them about it as well. And they may have respected me before, they may have looked up to us and our marriage before, but now that this has happened, they think less of me, and I can earn your trust back, but I don't know how to even begin to earn their trust back, and so I'm always going to have that hanging over my head, that scarlet letter. They see me this way now, and I used to be somebody they respected, somebody that they looked up to, and now I'm somebody that they don't want to associate with, or now I'm somebody that they lost respect for."
Morgan (31:51):
Yeah, maybe they won't trust me either.
Brad (31:53):
Yeah. So those are 20 things the unfaithful want the betrayed to know.
Morgan (31:57):
There are more out there, I'm sure.
Brad (31:59):
Yeah, of course there's a lot more than what we have listed here, but those are just 20, we wanted to share that with you today because it's useful to understand the thought process of both spouses. So last week we did the 23 things that the injured party want the unfaithful to know, and today we talked about the 20 things that the unfaithful want the betrayed to know. And like we've said throughout the podcast today, we do have workshops to help couples, and we would love to see you there. We're based in Tulsa, Oklahoma, so you may fly in or drive in, and they are powerful. We were looking up some statistics today, and 98% of the couples who go through it have found it to be extremely helpful.
Morgan (32:42):
Yes.
Brad (32:42):
And so I would love to see you there, if you're struggling and need direction and need help, we're here for you.
Morgan (32:49):
Yeah, and one aspect of the workshop that I really appreciate as a mom is you can join virtually, and you can also listen to a previously recorded one if you have small kids and you just can't get away from them for a whole weekend, that's also, I think, a big plus, a big bonus, so yeah.
Brad (33:10):
We're here for you, we have you, we've got your back, you can do this. Sometimes you just need somebody who's got a lamp just to help light the way, and that's what we're here for. We'd love to help you and we'd love to work with you and meet you.
Morgan (33:24):
Yep.
Stella (33:25):
It almost feels like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders and I'm so excited, our marriage is actually going to be better now.
Finn (33:33):
From my side, with Stella, she was having those triggers, I was learning to be on the caring side. I went through the six week program online, and I really got a lot out of that, really understand the healer part of being there for her, being calm, but she was having triggers. And I remember one night we sat in bed and she was having a major trigger, she was flooding, and I told her, I said, "Look, I'm sorry, I do not know how to help you with what you're going through right now, but I'm hoping that this workshop that we're going to would help you with that, also help myself in how to work through these triggers and things that is going on with our relationship, and how to communicate better." And that's a major thing that I got out of this workshop, I mean, it was really, really good.
Stella (34:30):
I think for me, after every day I actually felt better, which I was shocked by. I really thought it had been, we were going through heavy things and working through a lot of heavy things that I actually felt better, which was shocking to me. By the end of it, I felt like a weight was lifted off my shoulders, and we had the best conversations I think we've ever had.
Finn (34:58):
And this workshop is just incredible, it really is.
Brad (35:02):
What's the workshop been like for you guys?
Joe (35:05):
It's been extremely helpful. Me, as the betrayer in the relationship, being able to work through the why on the other side of it has been extremely beneficial, to better understand how past trauma has brought me to this point, along with how to communicate better and to have a better emotional awareness and tools in order to get there. Because I think with a better emotional awareness, both personally and in our relationship, we can talk through these things without getting to the point that we had in the past, so it's been life changing, and especially for our relationship, extremely beneficial.
Jim (35:39):
The workshops have been great, it has brought to light a lot of things that I was unaware of, even being married for 20 years to the woman that I've loved, that there are many things that I need to work on, as well as both a couple, but it has definitely shed new life on why my spouse possibly did what she did. Not giving her that it's okay, but there's a beginning of knowing why, which to me is a big base of knowledge that I need, because the why has been the big thing, and not knowing why, but knowing now there's a way to find that reason why has been a tremendous help, and it's something I've learned here over the past three days.
Anna (36:21):
And then also being around others who are in very similar circumstances, and hearing others' sides of things that sometimes you hear from your spouse but it doesn't resonate because it's your spouse, but when you hear it from someone else, I know it sinks in more. And then also, I think, on the other side, hearing from other betrayers, or having other betrays speak for things that make sense to me that I haven't been able to explain well to him has been helpful too. Walking in I almost had to drag him in here, just having him even agree to come down, he was just like, "You go by yourself, you go on your own," and then it was just like, "I'm going to go, but it doesn't matter, I'll sit there and listen if that's going to appease you." It was on the brink of really being done, yeah.
Jim (37:11):
It was. I think we were going to at least talk to each other on the plane, but no. No It's definitely, I think it's definitely going to send us in the right direction.
Brad (37:20):
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Jim (37:22):
My first bell was rung Friday when I was so stubborn, but hearing that, I was constantly thinking that I'm the only one hurt, not knowing, I know she's hurt, but going through some of that first stuff on Friday, knowing there's a reason possibly that I had no control over, that's when I reached out and grabbed her hand for the first time.
Brad (37:44):
Wow.
Jim (37:45):
We're young enough to still come through it, and then not have a huge impact on our kids. I haven't brought them up at all, but right now it's between her and I, and myself, I think I need to heal first and then go the marriage, and the kids are extremely important, but without myself being healthy and her being healthy, the kids, they have no chance if we're not taking care of each other.
Brad (38:13):
Yeah.
Anna (38:14):
Probably without finding your podcast, leading us here. And thank God, I mean, really, you were really one of the first podcasts that resonated. So our D-Day was almost three months ago now, and I found your podcast probably after the first month or so and shared some, and luckily he listened to it.
Jim (38:34):
I'm glad I listened to it.
Anna (38:35):
And it resonated with him.
Jim (38:36):
Once I heard it, yeah.
Anna (38:38):
So I can't imagine having gone through this for three years, we wouldn't have made it three years, we wouldn't have made it another three months, really.
Jim (38:47):
Yeah, definitely.
Anna (38:47):
So I'm very grateful.
Brad (38:50):
I appreciate you guys, thank you.
Morgan (38:50):
We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Healing Broken Trust Podcast. If you'd like our help in healing, go to healingbrokentrust.com. That's healingbrokentrust.com.
