Interview Transcript
Chaisley (00:00):
I'm afraid of what he'll say. I'm afraid to hurt him, but I just can't have that fear anymore. You know, I know that that's what he needs to heal and I heard it over and over on your podcast and it's, I just didn't quite understand it like, but now I do. And I think we're doing pretty good today. I would say, yes, we, you know, we still have work to do. And, but I feel like we're in a place where we're, it's more encouraging. We're not feeling as defeated.
Morgan (00:26):
Hi guys, Morgan Robinson here with a healing broken trust podcast where we lay the foundation for healing after infidelity. Thank you so much for investing in yourself and your relationship by joining us here. This podcast has been downloaded now over two, 2 million times, and we're always looking for ways to help you guys take your healing journey to the next level. Brad has taken what he's learned as a marriage and family therapist after working with over 5,800 couples, one on one, and has put it into a workshop setting. Why a workshop you ask, because it allows to deliver personal help to you specifically. It gives you the opportunity to hear from other couples who have made it through the struggle and offers a private community of likeminded people trying to heal broken trust and change their family's future. For the better we extend the support far beyond the three day workshop and meet with you to make sure you're getting everything you need. Remember the masterclass, we include that too, and don't worry. It's offered virtually as well. For those of you who live anywhere in the world, visit healingbrokentrust.com to learn more that's healingbrokentrust.com.
Brad (01:45):
Hi, it's Brad Robinson with healing broken trust. I'm here today with two very special guests, Chaisley and Cody. They were at a recent workshop. We did and they have volunteered to share their story of where they were at in their marriage before the workshop and what they learned at the work shop and where things are at today. Thank you guys for coming on board, doing this with me. I appreciate it so much. Thank you.
Chaisley (02:11):
Yeah. Thank you for having us. Yeah, thanks. Yeah.
Brad (02:15):
Where were things before? What happened and where were things before the workshop?
Cody (02:24):
I'll let you go.
Chaisley (02:25):
Um I guess in our situation, I am the betrayer and I guess our Dday would've been May 31st and we have just been trying to work through this on our own and obviously I've been struggling for a few months, all summer long <laugh> we found your podcast. I think Cody said he, like,
Cody (02:57):
I found it.
Chaisley (02:57):
Yeah. You found it and sent it to me. I think he's listened to every episode twice, and there was a few that really resonated with me and it was kind of helped us understand each other a little bit better, but we still found ourselves really struggling to just like get over that hump. You know, there's a lot of hurt obviously. And we weren't very good at communicating. So before the workshop, I would say we were a little bit stuck, we'd have our ups and then we'd have some really big downs.
Chaisley (03:34):
And we just kind of felt stuck, I think. And I don't think Cody really felt out like his needs were being met. And I thought I was trying to be a healer , but I didn't truly understand what that meant. . And so going to the workshop, I think we learned a lot about, you know, tools to use and the way I can actually be a healer. And just even having a moment to talk about things where we're not yelling and screaming and using your tools that you give us. And I feel like that helped us a lot.
Cody (04:08):
I think the workshop was like a good place for that, you know? Cause it's like, you gotta kind of mind your PS and QS cause there's other couples around and there's a lot of tension in the room anyways at the beginning. Yeah. So it's just like, it it's like time under tension, right? Like you're in this room for days going over the same stuff, you know, some of those old feelings are coming up and then you're starting to hurt a little bit, but then you're kind of checking through the boxes about how to navigate some of that stuff. So, I mean, that definitely helps. Yeah, for sure.
Brad (04:40):
Good. Yeah. That's good. Did it help with the negative cycle? Like just kind of understanding like certain things.
Chaisley (04:48):
I think we both really recognized yeah. Learning about the negative cycle. We had heard it on your podcast and I had an idea, but once we sat down and actually filled out those questions, I truly understood what would sat me off. What would push me into my negative cycle of what I was doing to push him into his. And so I think a big thing we learned from that too, is if we're feeling anything, just speak up and talk about it right away. We've already done that a couple times and just takes, takes that pressure off.
Cody (05:19):
I think of lot of this stuff is like your partner thinks one thing, you're thinking another thing and they just always, you know, don't me up. So I think going through the workshop and then just kind of saying, you know, noticing some of those things makes communication a lot easier. Yeah.
Brad (05:41):
Yeah. That's good. That's good. What, like, yeah.
Chaisley (05:46):
Sorry. I was just gonna say, I think that for us, it kind of, it almost got a little bit worse before it got better.
Cody (05:53):
Cause we didn't listen to you, Brad, you said, you said not to talk about it after that day, go to dinner. When you go to dinner at night, don't talk about what we talked about all day. The first night we didn't listen, but it was
Brad (06:04):
Bad night. Yeah. Most people, most people don't <laugh>, that's why I said that,
Chaisley (06:08):
But we came back and talked to you and you really helped us kinda work through that. And the next day, I think a lot of the exercises we did, we were able, able to kinda put our guard down and understand that negative cycle and how we could get out of that and just, you know, talking about things calmly <laugh>.
Cody (06:26):
Yeah. So you featured couples go into this thing, listen to Brad. Don't talk about your business after hours. It's already a long day anyways, that you need to just enjoy each other at night.
Brad (06:37):
That's good advice.
Chaisley (06:38):
The second night we did, we had a really good night. The second night we went to dinner and had a lot of fun and just enjoyed each other's company. So
Brad (06:46):
Yeah, you guys told me about a good restaurant. I'll have to check out
Chaisley (06:50):
Yeah. The rustic chop house in broken arrow. Delicious.
Brad (06:53):
I'll have to go to that. What about the Why exercise? Was that helpful? Kind of walking through the why?
Chaisley (07:02):
I think so. I feel like for me, I could check almost every box on that. Why, you know, I could relate to a lot of those things and I feel like I had tried to relate some of those things to Cody before, but it, you know, I, it was hard to explain and I didn't want it to come across as a, like an excuse for what I had done. So I think it helped us kind of understand each other a little bit better, not, you know, not justifying what I've done, but like, you know, you can kind of see how these things lead to destruction, if you don't take care of them and talk about them. And I felt like that helped us. Do you? The, I did.
Cody (07:40):
I mean, you know, being the partner that gets betrayed the why is always the toughest one, right? And sometimes you're in a state where all the information you're taking in, you're just not understanding anyway. Yeah. So, I mean, it's good. Just sit down and lay all that out. And then, you know, I mean just kind of take some recognition about, you know, kind of how they got to that position and, you know, I don't, I'm better with it now, but I can't really explain it that much. You know? I love the exercise that go and do the why and it definitely made me feel better afterwards, but I mean, it doesn't go away either. Sure. You know, So it's, it's a big wound. Yeah. These things
Cody (08:32):
Yeah. It's a big wound. Yeah. But yeah, that's good though. I think,
Chaisley (08:37):
I think when you touched on a big thing for else was the trauma too. You know, I think the trauma therapy is something that we're excited to try. I think that's where we get hung up a lot. And even with the why for me, there is a lot of, you know, childhood trauma and, you know, you don't realize how much that is affecting you even into your marriage. <Laugh> yeah. And so the why on top of the trauma was a big eye opener for us. I think it kind of even softened our hearts towards each other a little bit like, you know, and hopefully doing this trauma therapy, we could get over, we feel like we're on this up forward hill and we're almost we just can't quite get there. And we feel like, you know, like you've said, the trauma piece seems to be a huge thing. Yeah. We feel like our relationship side is pretty good and we wanna continue to work on that, but kind of taking care of that other piece is important.
Brad (09:30):
Yeah. That's good. That's big with the attachment injuries that we address. Being able to write the letters and share those and, you know, read 'em to each other. What was that like for both you guys?
Chaisley (09:46):
I felt like it was pretty powerful. I mean, I was very emotional. I could hardly read mine, but I felt like we could kind of feel each other on a different level. Like it was very genuine and being able to recognize those attachment injuries that I have had, and maybe held against him most of our relationship and being able to talk about him and you know, not hold those over each other anymore. I think that's super important. I think a lot of my resent might came from attachment injuries that really, I never talked about cuz I'm not good at initiating those conversations. and we learned a lot there too, you know, I thought I was talking to him about things that were hurting me, but I wasn't good at it. And then we both avoid and so we really learned a lot about how we handle conflict. I thought I would initiate and talk, but I was more of an avoider. And then I just hold onto that. yeah.
Cody (10:43):
So it's like just goes back to, you know, you think you're doing the right thing for your partner, but turns out you're not, you know? Yeah. Like the, just realizing that part alone was, you know, big, and then you, you kind of lay some things out there too when you start writing stuff. I think writing things down is more powerful too, because it's like, you don't necessarily know a lot of people. Like, I mean, if anyone like me, sometimes I have trouble getting my words out, you know, or, or my thoughts and sometimes writing 'em down, you know, and, and just within that exercise too, of putting that stuff on paper, you know, you address certain things and you, you know, just a small aspect of it. Yeah. And you get to write that down and then she gets to see it, you know, you know, what are the main things that like hurt you throughout the process the most, you know, and you can write those down and you know, it might be an eye opener for your partner.
Chaisley (11:36):
I mean, obviously I know he's hurt and it, this is a big wound and the betrayal is huge, but just hearing the specific parts that really hurt him, you know, like help me to realize, you know, how I can be a better healer, even in those little parts and how we can get through those a little better, I
Brad (11:55):
Think. Yeah. That's good. Cody for you hearing cha Lee's apology, like her real remorse, what was that like for you?
Cody (12:05):
You know, she's been pretty remorseful through the whole thing but you know, I think just of the exercise of us doing it back to back, like me doing mine, mind doing hers, I think when she sees mine and then she could kind of do hers off of that, you know, I think that was powerful because she, then she can really address the things that are actually bothering me in that letter. Yeah. You know, which, you know, at least that already, but maybe they're not necessarily saying that the way they, you know, just provides her with a little more information about what's going on with me. So I thought that was pretty powerful. Yeah.
Brad (12:44):
That's good. The bonding events that we did kind of, I choose you bonding events. What was that like for you?
Cody (12:56):
I tell you, like, that's been, like, one of the things that I struggle with the most is like, you know, would you choose me? There was a lineup of a hundred dudes, would I be the one that you pick, you know, I mean, I think that's one of those things when this happens, you know, it just kind of creeps inside you and, you know, you have that fear of not being chosen. Right. And then when she gets to lay that out, in words, on paper, you know, it definitely helps. Yeah. So,
Brad (13:31):
Yeah. That's good. Yeah. It definitely helps. Yeah. How did, how did that help you just hearing that, kind of asking that question and then hearing the response that she chooses you.
Cody (13:45):
I would say that, you know, just like I said, going into it before, didn't really feel that assured about it. She hadn't really been able to put that in words before, so it definitely helped a lot for me, which I think moving forward and to where we are today, , , you know, we just did this, what last week or something like that I feel a lot better. I feel more confident in myself, you know, about that. That was one of those things that I really struggled with, you know, kind of being a little bit depressed and not being myself, you know, I mean, having her put that in words to me is definitely a step forward for me. Yeah. So
Brad (14:29):
That's big, that's big. Yeah. I feel better about myself. Feel more confident. That's big. Yeah. That's, that's big that great. I really love hearing that. Yeah. Chaisley, for you hearing that from Cody, that he, you know, he still pick, he still picks you. What was that like for you to hear that?
Chaisley (14:50):
I mean, it makes me feel good cuz I feel like I, I have definitely struggled with being a healer for him. I think, I think there was a part of me that maybe still held onto some of those attachment injuries. And I wasn't realizing that either and I, so I wasn't being the best healer that I could be. Cause I still had my own, but now I feel like, you know, I want to make sure he's okay. And we've talked about wanting to talk about it every day and just making sure that we're taking care of each other on that level and yeah. You know, I, I worry myself that he wouldn't want to choose me there after I've done this, him, which is understandable. So I, I do feel like we left, I left our feeling closer. I like, we were kind of going like this a little bit again, it seemed like going apart and I felt closer than when we left and it felt good to hear that, you know, I do think that we can get through this. Yeah. As long as we continue to, to do the things that we each need for each other, you know, and I need to be a healer. That's the biggest thing that I need to do. I think.
Cody (15:59):
And like an example of that would be like so before that, you know, she thought she would was like be a healer for me by like all like kind of be in there for me. Like, like babe, I did your laundry today. I did this for you. I took care, you know, taking care of all the things around life. Right. but in real sense, I just needed to talk about it, you know, like just needed to address a question I had that day or anything that, you know, that makes sense. Sometimes you get, like, she felt like she was doing those things for me, but really all I needed was just, you know, some comfort in talking about it. Yeah. You know? And then another thing about what we learned there, you know, is like setting a time, talking about it for only, just a little bit, you know, but you making it periodically, don't let a week go by to where you don't say anything. and then now if something's on my head or in my head, like just say it, you know, like don't pull those things back because all that causes is resentment. If you let a week go by and then the next time you talk about it, it's usually lockdown drag out, you know? So it's, it's better to when you have that feeling or something on your heart just to say it now, you know? So yeah. That's good. And talk it out.
Chaisley (17:27):
Yeah. And I think being open to it and coming at each other calmly, <laugh> like providing a safe space for each other. I think for me as the betrayer, and you've talked about this on your podcast and in the workshop, you know, you feel like, why would I want to keep talking about this and you know, it's pain for you, but it's they need it. And it's healing. And sometimes the questions are over and over, but it's because the trauma part of it, he probably didn't remember half the things that I told him. And that was one thing I've learned. And there's one thing I could change besides not having an affair at all. It would be telling the full truth at the beginning. Yeah. There was trickle and I didn't realize how much more trauma and pain that caused him doing that than just getting it all out, you know? And now it's like, is this really the truth? Because like he's waiting for a little more to come out. And so I really regret that part of it, but I think moving forward, we just, I'm trying to be as honest as I can and check in with him, not just like, Hey, how are you doing? Like genuinely check in and talk about it. Is there anything on your heart? Let's talk about it right now. And I think if we can continue to do that, we can keep getting better. <Laugh> yeah.
Brad (18:46):
Yeah. It sounds like you guys have like this experience, so the workshop has helped you kind of not slide into the negative cycle like we had been
Chaisley (18:55):
And yeah, I think so. For sure. Yeah. And,
Brad (18:57):
And we've kind of started getting more into the positive cycle. And some we talked about at the workshop is, you know, negative cycles have triggers, but so the positive cycles and, you know, understanding each other's positive cycle triggers because you can only be really in one cycle or the other, you can, you can really only be in a negative cycle or a positive cycle. And, you know, we can have, if we're in a negative cycle, it's, you know, we may have breaks from it where we can kind of get out of it. But when we're in a positive cycle, of course we can still have negative things happen between us. But by and large, where we're living is either the negative or the positive cycle by and large, you know, we live in one or the other. And so I really love what you guys are saying because that's what it's meant to do is get us out of the negative cycle, find out what we, where we're missing in the healing journey and do the couple stuff that we can do. And the, the key result areas like, you know, because we don't wanna live in, I don't want people living in the healing journey forever. It's not meant to be forever. Like this is meant to get through not as fast as we can, you know, where we're short taking shortcuts, but let's work through this crap and get where we need to go so we can get busy living again. And yeah. You know, find happiness and not let this crap overpower us. I hate hearing people talk about, have they been in this for a couple years? You know, like that is, I hate that. And sometimes the way the podcast works, people meet me. They don't find it until two years later and it's like, they've done everything under the sun, but they're still stuck. And sometimes they're easier to help because you know, it's really couple things are missing. They need, they need, but it's also just painful. People live in that kind of misery for that long. And so that's what the workshop's designed to do is here's what, here's the key result areas, what we need to get us out of the negative cycle and into a positive cycle. And, and then, you know, like we talked about before, we spent a lot of time on the healing, broken trust triangle, like those key things, those three things that are really, if one of those is missing, that's it's gonna hold us back. And so, yeah.
Chaisley (21:02):
Let me ask you, I think that's how we were feeling before we came, you know, just little defeated, honestly. , we, and maybe like last resort, not last resort, like we, weren't wanting to be a part, but just like, what else can we do? And I, I truly am glad that we went, cuz it helped us really get over that little hump I think, and hopefully can continue to keep getting there with, you know, therapy with you and stuff.
Cody (21:30):
Yeah. I mean, it's all learning cycle, you know, like you say triggers in a, in a positive cycle. like one thing that I took away from the weekend too, that I've been trying to implement is, you know, you have triggers even in a positive cycle. And like when you have those, like, you know, it's usually an emotion, right? Like when something comes up and something triggers you, you get that gut wrenching feeling. Now when I get that, now it's like, all right, say it, you know, like get it out there. , , that's the best way to stay in that positive cycle. is just to get that stuff out. So it's like, that's one thing I've been trying to, to myself to change myself going forward and on how I communicate. It's like, all right, that hurt, say it, you know?
Chaisley (22:15):
So, and I try on my side when I, I can see when he is hurting rather than, you know, avoiding and holding in. I, I, I try to come up. Are you okay? Do you need to talk about it? You know, what's, what's bothering you. What's just talk about it. So, and yeah, we're just really trying to be better about that's great. Those things
Brad (22:34):
For sure. Yeah. That's great. What about wanna I ask you guys about, we had several couples speak several, how was that helpful hearing from them hearing from people who'd worked through this and really healed from it?
Chaisley (22:47):
Yeah. I think just being, you know, at first, obviously it sucks to be in a room with everyone that's gone through this and you know, they feel that pain, but at the same time, I think we were feeling pretty alone. Like, do people actually get through this? You know, are there other people that go through it? You know? So I think it was good to hear from them. It was hard to, you know, I hate to hear about other people's stories, but then when it's a success at the end, you know, they're doing okay. That was, was encouraging for us cuz when we were feeling pretty defeated, I think. Yeah.
Cody (23:21):
And I think, you know, one of the things that in the beginning, like listening to your podcast, you have a few folks that are on there. that you know, when you first hear and if you, and if there's anyone out there that's like new to this, , you know, when you first hear like, eh, it's year two and we're kind of doing right. You know, I mean, that's that, that hits you like holy crap, you know, like this is gonna be a year, you know, two year long deal. That was something that I struggled with. Oh yeah. But it's very defeating, but then, you know, if you can separate yourself from that and just know that this stuff is gonna be a lot of work if you wanna really work hard at it, doesn't have to be that , you know, cause I mean like let's start life, you know, like no sense getting what has happened has happened, you know, and the more you can humble yourself and get rid of your ego and work on moving forward. Cause I mean, that's a lot of it, you know, if you've been betrayed. Yeah. Like you kind of gotta get rid of your ego a little bit to soften your heart enough, to want to do the work, to move forward, to change yourself about how, you know, cuz she's not all at fault in this whole entire thing. You know, there was things on those sides that, you know, how we got to where we were at, you know? So if you can't take a little responsibility for that, you know, and I think what most people need to hear too is like, if you've been betrayed, you know, that's bull, it's not your fault that that happened. You know? I mean what they did to you was wrong. Yeah. But there could be life after that. Yeah. So
Brad (25:06):
That's good. Yeah. There can be life after that. Let me ask you guys, where are things today?
Chaisley (25:16):
I feel like we're doing pretty good today. We've had a couple times where we've talked about things that, you know, triggers or things that came up. And I think maybe we both almost wanted to avoid it for a second, but we talked about it and I feel like yeah, it just, you get through it a lot quicker and then it's like, okay, wasn't that bad, but we're, I think we're both used to kind being avoiders and so that's the fear inside you. Yeah. You know, that's the fear us. Yeah. I'm afraid of what he'll say. I'm afraid to hurt it, but I just can't have that fear anymore. You know, I know that that's what he needs to heal and I heard it over and over on your podcast and it's, I just didn't quite understand it. Like, but now I do. And I think we're doing pretty good today.
Cody (26:03):
I would say yes,
Chaisley (26:04):
We still have work to do. And, but I feel like we're, we're in a place where we're, it's a little more encouraging. We're not feeling as defeated going forward. So what six, seven months in, I don't seven months almost. So yeah. I mean we're the same way we, life is short and you know, we have three each young kids and we'd like to get back to life. , you know, the best we can. And so I wanna make sure I'm doing everything I can to help him heal so that we can do that. Yeah. Yeah.
Brad (26:38):
Yeah. Cody, where would you say things are at today?
Cody (26:43):
I think for me, they're way better than they were even, you know, a few weeks ago, just like my outlook is a lot better. I'm you know, now I'm at this, I always talk to her and I was telling you that, you know, I just felt like I was up this hill, but I just couldn't quite get over You know, and I feel like I'm standing on top of it now I'm ready to kind of wow. Move forward, get, get this stuff hashed out and that's great. Continue on with life. Wow. You know, so, wow.
Chaisley (27:20):
We're hoping that we can be a success story that comes to your workshops, get something. Yeah. Right. Be like we were sitting right. Where you were. We were, yeah.
Brad (27:30):
You guys will be, we're gonna, so that leads me to the next question. What's next for you guys? Like we talked before we recorded like kind of what you guys wanted to do next, just in your healing journey. But what what's next for you guys? Like what do you, what's the next steps? Cause we've cuz there's relationship component to this there's other components, you know, what's next for you guys in the healing journey?
Chaisley (27:54):
I think we both realize that trauma therapy is gonna be a big, big thing for us that we both would like to do. And I mean to work on our couple's therapy as well, even just our relationship. I think trauma therapy for me is a big thing.
Cody (28:13):
Yeah. I would say me too. Cause I mean the, the way I understand it, you know, if, if you can get that little, you know, when one of those triggers starts and you can get that little, not in your stomach to be a little bit less each time it happens. I mean, that's really all I'm going for. Yeah.
Brad (28:32):
<Laugh> yeah. Yeah. You're in control of yourself.
Cody (28:34):
I think it just makes things easier going forward.
Brad (28:36):
So yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think that really is a major culprit in where people get stuck. I think it's a major part of where people get stuck for sure. I appreciate you guys doing this. You guys are incredible, extremely generous. Thank you for your time. And you're helping countless people that we will never get a chance to meet. And so thank you very much. I really appreciate you guys doing this. Anything else? We appreciate you. You're welcome. I really appreciate you guys. So anything else you want to kind of leave listeners with before we go?
Chaisley (29:17):
I would just say if you're listening and you just you're feeling discouraged and you know, you maybe wanna do the workshop or, but it's a lot of money or, you know, I know these things can get expensive, but I would just say that the investment is worth it. If you wanna make your marriage work and be better on the other side of this to just invest in it and you, you know, you will be better after it. You know, you find things about yourself that you never knew. And I think no matter what, you'll be better on the other side of it. So I would say that investing in it was, you know, is important. And if you wanna, you on with your marriage, just make that investment and it's worth it.
Cody (30:04):
Yeah. Cuz we were gonna go what, September, October, November, or something like that. We kept pushing it off. Yeah. .
Chaisley (30:12):
And then we finally just, [said] we have to do it and then we couldn't cancel it, you know? And it, it was good.
Cody (30:19):
Just commit. I wish we would've went sooner. Yeah. So I love I do too. That's awesome.
Brad (30:24):
That's great. Well, thank you guys very much. Thank you.
Chaisley (30:27):
Thank you. I'll see you. Thank you. And thank
Brad (30:29):
You guys for listening. See you next time.
Morgan (30:32):
We hope you enjoyed this episode of healing, broken trust podcast. If you're ready to take the next step on your healing journey, head over to healing, broken trust.com. In addition into information about our workshop, we have several goodies to help you through the process, go to healing, broken trust.com.
