Jim:
The workshop's been great. It has brought to light a lot that I was unaware of even being married for 20 years to the woman that I've loved. There are many things that I need to work on as well as both of us as a couple. But it has definitely shed new light on why my spouse possibly did what she did, not saying that it's okay, but there's the beginning of knowing why. To me the workshop is a big base of knowledge that I needed because the why has been the big thing and not knowing why, but knowing now there's a possibly way to find that reason why has been a tremendous help, is something I've learned here over the past three days.
Brad:
Good. What's this been like for you?
Anna:
For me, as a betrayer, it's been helpful to, I guess, kind of have insight in terms of my past trauma and how I've handled that or not handled that. How I've compartmentalized things instead of dealing with it. How, I guess that's left me not very self-aware or emotionally aware and therefore not being able to really tune into my husband's needs. Not necessarily taking his feelings into account about things that I didn't think were a big deal, but were a big deal and led me down to where I am now.
And just having, I guess, kind of a roadmap to how to move forward, how to hopefully have conversations that lead us somewhere productive instead of getting stuck in a loop of arguing and fighting. Helping me realize what his needs are and being more aware and taking that into account. Then also being around others who are in very similar circumstances and hearing others' sides of things that sometimes you hear from your spouse, but it doesn't resonate because it's your spouse, but when you hear it from someone else, I know it kind of sinks in more.
And then also, I think on the other side, hearing from other betrayers or having other betrayers speak for things that make sense to me that I haven't been able to explain well to him, has been helpful too. And then hearing from those who have been betrayed on giving me some advice like, just don't correct him. If you're hearing something that's not correct, just let him be wrong. Zip your lip. Don't try to justify everything. Don't be so defensive. Just really being able to take that into account and to start doing that.
Brad:
That's good. We can learn from each other. What are maybe some of the biggest things you guys have learned or maybe most surprising or maybe most helpful things that you've learned?
Anna:
Some of the exercises that we did today, it was very healing for me to hear, at least, that he does still value me. Just going through those exercises and speaking to our emotions. Because honestly, I know you said like if there's that 1% of you that feels this way, I was really scared to ask the question like, why do I deserve you? I was waiting for, "I don't know, or I don't think you do." But it was good to hear something positive from him about me.
Jim:
Today was a big day. Again, going over those exercises and just what she had just said about the 1%. I didn't know if I had the 1% in me at that point. I know that I have a lot more to give than the 1%. But when you said "as if you had 1%". I never looked at it that way of "just 1%". It was either all in or none. It was either black or white. And giving me that little bit of gray space to feel that if there's 1% right, it's a lot more than nothing. And the tools and just some of the lessons were so helpful. And a big thing to me again, is the learning from other people. Hearing the other people's stories. The program taught me how to question my own beliefs. It might be okay. Like you said, "being okay is okay" or "just being okay is okay." And to me, that was kind of hard to hear, but it is. I can definitely see myself being okay.
Brad:
That's important.
Jim:
But it feels like it's down the road but I know I can get there. Seeing it from just that 1%, that opened my eyes because I was either in or out, it wasn't when I heard that, I had to really reconsider what I was thinking, just after the 1%, I mean, and how valuable she is to me and what she means to me and has. But it is kind of given me a stepping stone now to, if there's 1%, there's 98 left or 99 left to go.
Brad:
That's good.
Jim:
That's kind of, I guess, what I've learned from.
Brad:
That's great. That's really good. Last question. Where were things kind of walking into the workshop and how would you describe how you guys are feeling right now, walking out?
Anna:
Walking in, I almost had to drag him in here.
Jim:
I almost walked across the…
Anna:
I mean we-
Jim:
Almost took a room across, when we parked, I took a room almost, I sat up a room across the street for the hotel. We didn't talk on the whole seven hour flight here.
Anna:
We've had cycles usually of like two or maybe three good days, and then two or three really bad days for the last two months. And so we booked this on a good time. And as it drew closer, our flight was supposed to leave around 12. We should have left the house around nine. At 10 o'clock, we still hadn't left the house. And so it was a struggle getting to the airport. And then from the airport, it was a struggle once we got here, just having him even agree to come down. I mean, he was just like, "You go by yourself, you go on your own." And then it was just like, "I'm going to go, but it doesn't matter. I'll sit there and listen if that's going to appease you, and then you'll know that I'm serious." So for me, this was a big hail, I guess, a Hail Mary. The only thing I keep saying to him is that I'm just hoping for hope. And so I think this gives me more hope. But I mean, we're on the... I think Tim was on the brink of really being done.
Jim:
I was. I think we're going to at least talk to each other on the plane back now.
Brad:
At least we're talking.
Jim:
At least we're talking. I mean, correct. Correct. It's just a big emotional roller coaster and still being the one betrayed, and still, I was constantly hearing that, I didn't think she understood what I truly needed because I would tell her and tell her what I needed and then she would go and not do what that needed.
Brad:
Trickle truth.
Jim:
Trickle truth in line and continuation of line. And to the point is, I've given you so many chances and you continue to lie. And what I told you when I was all in, I was all in. And then you turn around and lie to me again. I'm like, I'm over. I'm done. I was going to use this as a, we can trip for myself while she was in class. But I understand how important it is. It is important to me. But it got to a point where I could have easily gotten another flight somewhere and gone somewhere else. But I'm here and I told her, as long as I'm here, I'm here. But when I'm gone, I'm gone. And no, it is definitely, I think it's definitely going to send us in the right direction.
Brad:
That's good.
Jim:
My first bell was rang Friday when I was so stubborn. But hearing that, I was constantly thinking this, I'm the only one hurt not knowing... I know she's hurt, but going through some of that first time on Friday, knowing there was a reason possibly that I had no control over. Kind of like, that's when I reached out and grabbed her hand for the first time. Because it was that big of a it rang my bell. Because there's a full time that she was just being extremely evil and it was vindictive.
And like I said, I know she's hurting, but until seeing some of the possibly reasons or based on the way she was raised or the circumstances she was raised in, that rang my bell that if it didn't happen just as whatever, it may have happened sometime in the future. Because I'm kind of glad, far as you were glad, I'm glad it's happened now and not 10 years down the road or whatever. We're young enough to still come through it and then not have a huge impact on our kids. I mean, I haven't brought them up at all, but I mean, right now it's between her and I. Myself, I think I need to heal first and then go to the marriage. And the kids are extremely important. But without myself being healthy and her being healthy, I mean the kids, they have no chance if we're not taking care of each other.
Brad:
I appreciate that. Thank you sir.
Anna:
We really appreciate you doing that.
Speaker 4:
Thank you, Brad.
Anna:
I mean, probably without finding your podcast leading us here. And thank God, I mean, really you were really one of the first, I mean, podcasts that resonated. So within, our D-Day was almost three months ago now, and I found your podcast probably within, after the first month or so and shared something with, and luckily he listened to it.
Jim:
I'm glad I listened to it.
Anna:
And it resonated with him
Jim:
Once I heard it. Correct. It was…
Anna:
So I can imagine having gone through this for three year... We wouldn't have made it three years. We wouldn't have made it another three months, really. But I'm very grateful.
Brad:
I appreciate you guys. Thank you.
