Ep 9: 6 Ground Rules for Discussing Infidelity

Brad:

You're dealing with it, avoiding it keeps you stuck in it. And so this isn't easy. These are simple ideas. It's not easy to work through an affair, but the ideas are simple.

Morgan:

That

Brad:

Doesn't mean they're always easy to do, but doing them will help you recover and give you what you need to do to recover.

Morgan:

Absolutely.

You are listening to Healing Broken Trust podcast with Brad and Morgan Robinson. This podcast is where we talk about healing from affairs, infidelity, trust, and cheating in your relationship if you're wanting to heal your marriage. This podcast is for you. This episode, episode nine is where we talk about ground rules for talking about the affair. And just as a reminder, go to healing broken trust.com/episode nine to download your free resources. Again, that's healing broken trust.com/episode nine. That's the number nine. Download your free resources and walk through those resources as you listen to these episodes. You'll find it's very, very helpful. So let's get started. So Brad, what are we talking about today?

Brad:

Well, today we're going to talk about really the ground rules of how to talk about an affair. We've gotten a lot of emails at people asking basically that question. We're having trouble in this area, so we want to give you guys listening ground rules on how to talk about an affair to really make this the most productive time because how you talk about it really sets the stage of your affair recovery process. And so ground rule number one is just that how the affair is discussed, it's more important than really what you talk

Brad:

About.

Brad:

And this needs to be a process where the discussions are handled in a way where both spouses feel respected and Morgan, so many people talk about an affair and it becomes so in a way counterproductive because there's arguing and fighting about it and people don't really get the healing that they need or they don't heal the way they need to. So what we're talking about is the ground rules and really that main idea how we talk about this, it's so important because it's really even more important than what is said if it's done in a way with caring, compassion, honesty. Honesty is really important. If we have that, it's really going to help us in their fair recovery

Morgan:

Process a lot more successful. And how you talk about it, we'll also shape what is said. I mean if you are just haphazardly talking about it and you just talk forever and ever and ever, it's going to be a lot more difficult to control your emotions. And then in turn, you're going to say a lot of things that are hurtful.

Brad:

And so we're going to have some ground rules. So number one is just knowing this is an important piece of the process and what we say isn't really as important as how we talk about it.

Morgan:

Yeah,

Brad:

Exactly. And the reason I say it needs to be done in a way that's respectful with compassion is for the injured spouse, we need the betrayer to become the healer for us. And if they feel like this isn't helpful, they're not going to be honest and they're not going to share. And this needs to be productive.

Morgan:

And so it's really important to set aside intentional time to talk about the affair. And that's really ground rule number two, setting aside that time is so important. In the beginning you'll find that you want to talk for hours, but as the process of healing moves forward, you may find that the longer you talk about it in any given period, your conversations begin to be less and less productive.

Brad:

You should schedule time to talk about this because this is one of those things in life, just like exercise or dieting, where if you're not intentional about it, you're probably not going to do it as the betrayer. You're just going to want to avoid it.

Morgan:

Well, you've said at certain points cut it off because it'll be much more productive that

Brad:

Way. And I'm going to get into that later more specifically. But the idea with this is sitting aside, time gives you a break from dealing with the affair and in the beginning of the process of a fair recovery, what you're doing, most people find themselves talking about it for hours as time goes on, especially in the first weeks in the beginning. But as time goes on, people find themselves, we need a break from this. We still got lives to live lead. We still have things that we got to do. We just want to enjoy each other's company and have fun. And so setting aside time where specifically discuss this.

Morgan:

Yeah, exactly. And sometimes those intrusive thoughts that happen with the betrayed spouse, it can be very, very difficult. They can get into this cycle of asking the same question, same question, and then feeling like they're not getting anywhere. So it's kind of difficult if you like something you've said, something I've heard you say is that after 30 minutes, those conversations become kind of unproductive. Is

Brad:

That correct? Yeah. Well, as you go on longer it can be unproductive.

And so the next idea or the next ground rule is that the spouse who had the affair really needs to have what's called a purge session or a vomit session. You really need to get it out. You need to get all the details out, you need to get everything out. And the sooner this comes out, the better. It's always better if the betrayer discloses information rather than an affair partner tells the spouse or they'd stumble upon it. It's always better if that person says, Hey, I had an affair. This is what happened. And gives you the details of it. What's not helpful though is when the spouse who has been betrayed has to be a detective and has to really look for answers. They feel like they're getting stuck. They have to be a detective. They have to look for answers. They have to kind of hunt, they have to snoop around. You're not doing well in the air recovery process if that's happening. And part of that is the injured spouse has such a need to know, and here's what you're doing by talking about this, is you're giving them knowledge that is really healing for them.

It really helps them. I know when I was betrayed in the past, before I married my wife, completely different person. But whenever I had a chance to talk to somebody about this, who knew the other person and that can shine some light on to help me understand this betrayal better, that was the only time I found relief. Many times that's what this is like for people is the only time they find relief is when this is actually being discussed and they feel like they're getting answers about this. And so

Morgan:

It's a lot easier to build trust that way too, if you're being outright honest and open and just very transparent. Yeah,

Brad:

You're exactly right, Morgan, when you're 100% honest, you're being 100% transparent. I have nothing to hide. Here's what I've been doing this

Morgan:

You I volunteering

Brad:

Information and you're willing to do this.

It's not like pulling teeth or you're forced to do this, but you're willing to do it. When you have that, it's a much smoother healing process. This isn't an easy process, but it's much smoother. And so the spouse that's been betrayed, they need to know that's when they find relief. But part of this though is people don't want to really share or they don't want to purge or vomit because they feel like they're actually doing more damage when they do that. But it's like cough medicine. Sure, cough medicine tastes horrible, but it actually makes you feel

Morgan:

Better. Absolutely. And you may notice that the betrayed spouse asks the same questions over and over and it may be a cue that you're not giving enough detail. It's very normal for the betrayed spouse to ask questions, the same questions over and over. But it may be that they're just trying to process it and they learn something new each time. They may hear something a little differently or they may actually, something may sink in the third time that they hear it. But it may also be that cue that you need to give a little more detail. Maybe you need to give a little more information, try not to hold back and try to just be very patient with that because it's going to be a process.

Brad:

And Morgan, before we go on onto the next one, I wanted to just throw this in there. Somebody this last week said, look, I already know the worst part of this. You cheated on me. Nothing else you're going to tell me is worse, as bad as that. And so it's just a lot of the people who have affairs who cheat because they don't want to make matters worse, they don't want to see their spouse hurting. They will basically suppress information and not want to say anything. And so what happens is they're not talking, they're not sharing

Morgan:

That kind of thing. Yeah, absolutely. Alright, and we're talking about key important steps. Actually we're on the fourth step. They need to volunteer information and the more you volunteer on your own and the less your spouse has to dig for it and dig for it, the better you are in the process of healing. So what would you say is the next one, Brad?

Brad:

Well, the fifth ground rule or one of the ground rules is if the injured spouse attacks the betrayer, the less likely the betrayer is going to be to participate, the less willing they are to participate. And so what happens is, is this gravely injures the couple's ability to recover and that defensive behavior that they have keeps 'em in a posture of self-protection instead of a healing posture, instead of a nurturing, healing, supportive role, they're feeling attacked and they're feeling defensive. They're focused on their own needs. Having an affair is obviously a very, very, very selfish act, very selfish behavior. But what people don't understand is that these people, when they're feeling defensive, they're not in a healing posture, they're still thinking of themselves,

Morgan:

Right? It's like that fight or flight mode where if they're being attacked, the only thing their body knows to do or their mind has to do is I've got to get away from this. I've got to get away from being

Brad:

Attacked. The spouse who had the affair, you have to be honest, you have to be transparent, you have to be willing to do whatever it takes. But the spouse who's been betrayed, this doesn't necessarily automatically give you the right to become emotionally abusive or verbally abusive either.

Morgan:

And it's probably very hard not to be.

Brad:

Yeah, it's very hard not to be, and you feel like this is kind of your divine right. You cheated on me, I get to treat you however I want to. An attitude like that is only going to keep you stuck in the recovery process. And let me just say this in the beginning, it's very hard not to feel a sense of entitlement and not just in the beginning, it could be for several months, but having a sense of entitlement, you owe me that, especially when it comes to talking about this. Those are things that you have to work through. But if you have this, you betrayed me, now you have to walk the line, walk the line, walk on eggshells. That long term does not work out into very good marriage. That works short term when recovering from an affair because it helps, but it's not really the way to rebuild a marriage either.

Morgan:

And that also can be helpful when if you start to find yourself going into that process, into that negative cycle, that 30 minutes, keeping it short, will help you to not start becoming that critical, that angry person.

Brad:

Would you say it's the idea of open limitations? You can bring up a question really at any time as time goes on, and there's still the need to talk about this with open limitations. You're able to talk about it at any time, but no longer than 15 to 30 minutes. Really any question, and we're going to talk about in a minute, the types of questions you don't want to get into and ask. And it's really anything that makes you more obsessive, like sexual details or love letters or correspondence of that type. Just seeing I love you, that makes it worse. But what I'm trying to say is if you find yourself talking about this and it's not being productive, you feel like you're getting angry and heated, there is the need to talk about it. But how we talk about it's so important. So

Brad:

If

Brad:

You find yourself really in the first three minutes not getting anywhere talking about this, you're better off taking a break for at least 20 minutes because again, how you talk about it's so much more important than what you talk about. And the reason I say take a break for 20 minutes is our heart rate gets around a hundred beats per minute. We enter that fight or flight mode, and what happens is blood is leaving our brain, it's flowing to our feet, and we're no longer thinking objectively. We're no longer being really rational. And that's when you're more likely to have cases of domestic violence or people punching holes in the wall or just doing whatever, just doing really stupid stuff.

Morgan:

That physiological response,

Brad:

You have a physiological response. And so if you find yourself getting there, what you can do to make this time more productive is take a 20 minute break. You can turn off the lights in the house, turn down the temperature in the house, drink something cold, and doing those things, breathe deeply from your stomach. Yeah, definitely breathing deeply, taking deep breaths like that just in and out, doing at least six deep breaths a minute.

Morgan:

And that's with your

Brad:

Stomach or 10 deep breaths a minute breathing from your stomach area. And all this does is it helps you cool your body down, helps you lower your heart rate. So this becomes more productive. We're dealing with trauma and when we have trauma, heart rate rises quicker. Things are more likely just to kind of snap. Things are more likely to kind of get out of hand. And so if we follow these steps that I'm outlining, it's going to be much more productive. And as the injured spouse, that's going to help you heal much quicker because the betrayer isn't going to think, okay, they're crazy or Why talk about this? You're letting me know when I tell you new

Morgan:

Information.

Brad:

You're going to snap, you're going to snap. And I shouldn't tell you, and this is what you need to know as the betrayer is, the more they know about this, the better they're going to feel and they're actually getting better. Kind of as we said earlier, it's like cough medicine, it tastes horrible and you have to pinch your nose and tilt your head back and you don't want to really do it. But in the couples who do this or the couples who do the best, and that's why we're telling you to do this,

Morgan:

Right? It's like the healing medicine. You're just talking about it. It's

Brad:

Painful and there's not a better way. There's really not a better way. And so

Morgan:

It's worth it.

Brad:

So these are the ground rules. And so that's kind of where we're at.

Morgan:

Okay, so now we're going to talk about,

Brad:

We're talking about ground rule six.

Morgan:

That's right. Ground rule six, which is basically talk about the affair, talk about what's gone on with compassion and care. One major reason we want to keep the discussions to a shorter length of time. It's because it can become very difficult to keep the conversations productive and kind. This goes back to how it's talked about, but we need to keep our cool the best we can, especially as the betrayer when discussing such heed information or really both betrayed and the betrayer. This doesn't mean we don't have bad moments though

Brad:

That's

Morgan:

Expected.

Brad:

And Morgan, you're right with the trauma aspect that we've talked about the last several weeks, there is going to be people snapping. And what I mean by snapping people getting upset easily, you have the exaggerated startle response. You're going to be,

Morgan:

Those nerves are

Brad:

Exposed. Yeah, your nerves, your anxiety, your heart rate increasing, people are going to be upset talking about this. That's not a reason not to talk about it either,

But it needs to be done in a way, the best possible way where people feel safe, people feel secure, that kind of thing. And so part of this, us talking about it with care and compassion is the injured spouse. What I tell people to do in my office is as you talk about this, really journal your anger on the paper journal, invent your feelings on the paper, and it's just as effective as really talking to somebody about it. You talk to somebody, they're going to be able to give you ideas and feedback. You're not going to get that when you journal or write down your feelings about this. But if you turn, like I've mentioned repeatedly throughout our broadcast today, if you turn and direct your anger towards your spouse in this, they're not going to really want to be there to help you no matter how much shame or guilt they feel, their guilt and shame is actually going to keep them from talking to you about it more because they're like, gosh, I've hurt them so bad and I see them getting angry and upset and

Morgan:

I already feel bad.

Brad:

I already feel bad about it. I don't want to make them feel worse. I'm only going to feel worse,

Morgan:

And I feel worse now because I'm making them feel bad.

Brad:

And so what you need to do is really journal about this. And what I mean by journal is just take out a pen, take out sheet of paper or journal book or a diary. Write in that your emotions, your feelings. Write letters to the affair partner. Write letters to your spouse.

Morgan:

Don't send them.

Brad:

Yeah, do not send these letters and take it outside and burn it. Get it all out. Get it all out of your system. Put it all on paper. You're only writing for yourself. It's nothing that your counselor needs to see. It's nothing that your spouse needs to see anybody else needs to see. You can write prayers to God, you can write whatever you want. But the thing is, the process of writing has the same effect on you psychologically as verbally telling somebody that. And so when you first start this though, there is a side effect. You're probably going to be sad for a couple hours and you're probably going to be angry after you do it for a couple hours, maybe even a couple of days. It just kind of depends, but it's just like cough medicine. It helps you deal with it. And like we talked about when we were talking about trauma, you have to deal with this.

Avoiding it is only going to keep you there. And so journaling about this, writing about it, putting it on paper, what that's helping you do is you're getting it out of your mind. You're getting it on paper, you're not thinking about it as much, but it also, it's going to help make these talks that you guys have much more productive because you're not channeling your anger and these negative emotions onto your spouse who's betrayed you. And they're going to feel like, okay, I can talk about this. We can talk about this more. I'm not saying that you should not tell your spouse, I'm really having a bad day. I really feel down. I'm not saying that you should feel like you have to walk on eggshells around your spouse, either one of you, but if we just kind of always unload on them and verbally bash them, and in some cases verbally abuse our spouse, they have no incentive because they feel like they're only doing more damage by talking about this with you.

But if you journal it on paper, put it on paper, it's going to help you find peace, it's going to help you find relief, it's going to help you find really just that peace of mind and it's going to help you have more care and compassion. It's going to make this a much smoother process. So you got to channel this stuff on the paper, and then what you can do is just take it outside and burn it and you can watch it go. It's just going to bring more closure and more peace. And that's something that you're going to have to do several times. It's not a one-time event, but it's going to be something that you do repeatedly throughout the process for the next several months moving forward. But it's going to bring you healing. And the more you do that, the people who do that the most, Morgan, are the ones who get the best care, who get the most out of counseling.

Morgan:

Interesting. Yeah, that's very interesting. I can see that in my own experience. I've found that journaling is very, very helpful. And it's funny that you say that you'll be upset or angry for a few days and you don't even realize it sometimes that, gosh, yeah, I'm in a real poor mood and it makes sense. I just journaled out on this

Brad:

Book, all these feelings. It is bringing things up to the surface, but that's not a reason, in my opinion, that's not a strong enough reason to not do it

Morgan:

Right. It's a good thing because you're purging, you're getting it out.

Brad:

Well, you're getting it out, you're with it, avoiding it keeps you stuck in it. And so this isn't easy. These are simple ideas. It's not easy to work through an affair, but the ideas are simple.

Morgan:

That

Brad:

Doesn't mean they're always easy to do, but doing them will help you recover and give you what you need to do to recover.

Morgan:

Absolutely.

Brad:

Absolutely. And so basically, journal, journal, journal, the people who do that recover the best. It's going to keep you from getting riled up about this.

Morgan:

Absolutely. And the thing that Brad was talking about with limiting that time that you talk with each other about certain issues, especially if you find yourself going off into getting upset, but as you journal, you can write down the questions or comments, write them down, save them for that time, think them through a little bit because then when that limited time that you have that you've placed that limit, you've placed on your conversations, you're really going to have a more productive conversation. You're really going to have more of your questions answered probably in a more productive way because you've thought them through, you've really written them out and kind of considered, what do I really need to know? What do I really want to know? And then you're able to ask it in a way that's easy for them to answer and for you to follow up and ask further questions to get real answers. So that's a good thing to remember there too.

Brad:

Thanks for listening to Healing Broken Trust. If you like this episode, you can always get our show notes and more details and links to the resources we discussed at healingbrokentrust.com. Also, as long as you're online, head on over to healing broken trust.com/retreat for details on an upcoming one-on-one retreat with me. If you like us, please subscribe and leave a review for us on iTunes. As always, everything discussed on this podcast is either my opinion or Morgan's opinion and is not to be taken as relationship advice because I'm not your therapist, nor have I considered your personal situation as your therapist. This podcast is for your entertainment and education only, and I really do hope you've enjoyed it. See you Until next time.

Ep 10: Why People Cheat, What Makes A Cheater?, What Leads To Infidelity? Why Did This Happen To You?

Brad:

Affairs happened when someone closes a door to their spouse and they open a door to someone else. I'm no longer communicating with you because this negative cycle has beat me up where I'm not asking for my wants and needs.

Morgan:

You are listening to Healing Broken Trust podcast with Brad and Morgan Robinson, where we talk about healing from affairs and fidelity trust and cheating in your relationship. If you're wanting to heal your marriage, this podcast is for you. We're on episode 10. We're talking about why do people cheat, why do they cheat? And I think that this one is pretty straightforward. But before we get started, I want to remind you to go to healing broken trust.com/episode 10. That's healing broken trust.com/episode, the number 10, episode 10, and download those free resources that will really help you to walk through this process to truly heal from what you're going through right now. So let's jump into episode 10 and learn why people cheat on our show. We've talked about the different types of affairs, but there is still this looming question of why do people cheat? So Brad, you want to begin to answer this question for our listeners?

Brad:

Yeah, Morgan, people cheat. There's three primary reasons why people cheat. The first two are not that common, and the third is extremely common. The first reason is sometimes people cheat because they're sex addicts. They have a compulsive tendency to act out. And like all addictions, it's negative impact on the addict and on family members increases as the disorder progresses. And what I mean by that, as people get deeper into this, it gets worse and worse over time. The addict usually has to intensify the addictive behavior to achieve the same results. And let me explain that. When somebody has an addiction, it doesn't satisfy what you start out doing in the beginning, typically doesn't satisfy those urges. So somebody can start with pornography and self-pleasure. A lot of people can stay there who are addicts, but most people will begin to escalate into other things where they start acting out with other people, they start going to prostitutes, they start seeing escorts, they start acting it out. And so over time, the addict will intensify their addictive behavior to achieve the same results. And that's where some affairs come from.

Morgan:

So that fantasy must then become a reality to further satisfy that addiction.

Brad:

And if you think about it, they've been basically viewing pornography. They've been viewing and breaking down mental barriers that most people have to an affair.

Brad:

They're

Brad:

Actually mentally rehearsing an affair when they're viewing pornography. Another thing that's going on is the other type of people who have affairs are the philanders. And I would say that's more an attitude than anything else. And this attitude says there may be something, this attitude of flander, they believe that cheating is okay for them to do. It's something that guys or girls do, and it's more of a rationalization. Okay, just as long as you don't get caught. Sometimes this attitude says there's no way a man or woman is supposed to be monogamous.

Morgan:

It's a myth, right?

Brad:

Yeah, it's a myth. You can't be monogamous,

Morgan:

Which is not true. It's not accurate at all. But they believe that.

Brad:

And this kind of attitude can lead to serial cheating and very flirting behavior, especially when their spouse isn't around. The attitude of the philander says there is nothing wrong with it. They may rationalize what they're doing or saying to themselves, as long as I'm not having sex with them or intercourse with them, it's okay. So kissing is okay. Spending time with them is okay. Sharing intimate parts of my life is okay because I'm not doing X, Y, or Z with them. And of course, they may even believe sex is okay too. Just don't get caught. And I've had different people tell me before that they viewed having an affair as a rite of passage. And it's something that men do as a part of growing up, as a part of maturing their certain

Morgan:

Rites of passages,

Brad:

Certain rites of passage.

Morgan:

And that's what we see in TV and movies all the time. Oh, you're a virgin. That's supposed to be some kind of bad thing.

Brad:

But there's people like that. There's attitudes that affect someone to have an affair, and we're going to get into that in a little bit later. But most individuals I work with, I would describe them as someone who's burnt out in their marriage.

Morgan:

So that's the third category.

Brad:

That's the third category.

Morgan:

Most people fit into the third

Brad:

Category, and we're going to spend most of our time talking about that. But these are people who are burnt out and there are attitudes that affect somebody having an affair. And there's those outside influences, family and friends. Have they had an affair? Have your mom and dad had an affair? If they have, you're more likely to have an affair yourself or coworkers cheating. What are coworkers attitudes about infidelity? What was your family's attitude about infidelity, your friend's attitudes about infidelity and pornography? Like we mentioned earlier, when you're viewing pornography, you are mentally rehearsing an affair. Those are outside influences that affect somebody, make it easier for somebody to cheat. Romance novels. Reading that, you're also mentally rehearsing having an affair. A lot of our entertainment, a lot of movies, a lot of different cultural things that we have, they really do not support the idea of monogamy. And they make infidelity attractive. They make it funny, they make it make it okay, a normal part

Morgan:

Of. So society is what they're telling us, which is not true

Brad:

When you're exactly right about that. So those are attitudes. Those are cultural things. Those are outside influences that make it, that can be associated with family, friends, coworkers, viewing pornography, reading, romance novels or entertainment. Even celebrity culture, it makes it easier for somebody to cheat.

I would even say even certain types of jobs make it easier for people to cheat, especially if you travel for a living, you're in certain professions where it's just easier to cheat. And so affairs really start Morgan here, and I want to get into the root of why people cheat. It really starts with the negative cycle that a couple is in. Most couples I would say are not happy if they're having an affair. The exception with that may be the philanders or the sex addicts. I would say almost everybody else, if they're in this burnt out category, they're not happily married. If they're cheating, I wouldn't classify that as a good marriage. And let me explain the negative cycles, because this is where infidelity starts. There are three kinds of negative cycles. There are the first kinds, the most common kind, and this is a negative cycle where the person who's having the affair is a distancer. They are somebody who is more withdrawn, not very emotionally expressive, typically in the relationship. They avoid. They avoid, and they may not start that way in the relationship though they may get to that place because they feel like they don't matter to their spouse.

Morgan:

They don't know how to ask for wants and needs.

Brad:

They don't know how to get. And so they may get to that point with their spouse. So they may not start that at that place of being a er. They may start at a place of being a pursuer

And a pursuer, and you can go through and listen to our recordings on that. We've talked about that before. So go listen to that. Who are pursuers and who are distancers. But pursuers are the ones who fear being abandoned, fear, rejection. They want to be close. And if they don't get it, they'll escalate their attempts for attention and connection into things like blaming, criticizing, demanding, and distancers are people who will kind of shut down emotionally. They will shut down because they don't think engaging with somebody who's upset with them is going to be that productive. And so that's where negative cycles typically start. And that's the most basic kind. And the person who cheats is a distancer. They're the one distancing from connection

Morgan:

To the relationship and their spouse, right?

Brad:

Yeah.

Morgan:

They're more invested in the affair or other things than they are in the relationship at that point, wouldn't you say? Or is that kind of later on?

Brad:

That's later on. But that's true. But that would happen later on. They become more interested in that for right now before the affair even starts. And you can have a pursuer who becomes a distancer. You can have a pursuer who also gets burnt out because they don't feel like they're getting through and they start shutting down emotionally, and then they have their own affairs. So that's where affairs start is that you have a negative cycle. Couples get into, and we've talked about how to get out of negative cycles, we've discussed that. Go listen to that. And so that's where a fair start. Morgan and every relationship has a negative cycle. And that first one, that's the pursuer. Distancer is the most common type of negative cycle. Then there's a negative cycle where couples are basically fighting all the time.

Morgan:

So they're pursuing, pursuing attack. Attack.

Brad:

Yeah. Well, the one who's been distancing feels like they're getting attacked by the pursuer because the pursuer is like, I'm not getting through to you. So they're

Morgan:

Blaming,

Brad:

Criticizing, demanding. It escalates. Then the distancer feels like they're getting their back against the wall, so they'll attack back. But they're primarily a distancer, and so they're just attacking back,

Morgan:

Can't put baby in a corner, right?

Brad:

Yeah. And they may be getting resentful as well. And so that's the second type. Then the third type is really what I would consider a void avoid. And these can be looked at as two different types of situations, but basically what they do is they avoid each other and they can avoid each other. They don't like conflict, they don't like stirring things up. And that can be both of them. So the pursuer, even though they want that connection, they're not really criticizing or blaming because they don't like conflict. So they're stuffing what their feelings are.

Morgan:

And

Brad:

Then the er, they're stuffing what their feelings are and what's going on with them.

Morgan:

And sometimes they think, oh, everything's okay. There's no argument.

Brad:

Well, exactly. They think they're in a strong marriage. And I got to tell you, a lot of people have affairs in this kind of situation

Morgan:

Where one pushing stuffing and they're really not being honest about how they feel.

Brad:

Well, even in the avoid, avoid situation, a lot of people have affairs in that. And then the other type of avoid, avoid affair is an affair where the person who was the original pursuer gets burned out, like I mentioned a moment ago, and they're avoiding, they're distancing, and you have the ER as well. And sometimes the one who was the original pursuer, like I said, they'll get burned out and they'll distance. Then the one who was the original ER will see, oh my gosh, they're pulling away from me. I don't like this much distance between us. Then they can become the pursuer.

Morgan:

So they sort of switch roles.

Brad:

Yeah, they'll switch roles. But basically I'm saying all that to say, well not spend a lot of time on that just to say this. That's where fares start. They start with a negative cycle because a couple does not feel close and people can say they have a good marriage and still have an affair. And I would say for the most part, that's probably hogwash unless there was a sex addiction affair or a flander is affair. And the people who are most likely to say that were probably people who were the avoid, avoid. Well, we never fought,

Morgan:

So we must have had a good relationship, but they weren't close to each other emotionally, they just assumed all relationships were like that. Typically,

Brad:

Yeah, we're good because we don't fight. They may have good communication skills, but they're not really talking about anything

Morgan:

Of significance, of

Brad:

Significance, emotional, their relationship and their feelings. They may be great at communicating about picking up the kids and planning their retirement and things like that, but not what's going on between them as a couple,

Morgan:

That deep emotional intimacy.

Brad:

And so affairs start with the negative cycle. Morgan, this leads into a progression of things that happen. And this doesn't necessarily happen in any chronological order necessarily. These things that I'm discussing, negative cycles create the affairs. Affairs start with a negative cycle, and that leads to the person who's having the affair, who ends up having the affair, feeling like they're burned out, they're tired, they feel beat up by the negative cycle, they end up feeling like they're not good enough for their spouse and because they're tired, because they're burned out, because they're beat up by the negative cycle. They don't ask for their wants and needs.

Morgan:

And I think it's very interesting to point out that you say they're beat up by their negative cycle. A lot of people think well beat up by my spouse, but no, it's beat up by that negative cycle. It's what's happening between you that's wearing you out.

Brad:

What's happening between you that's wearing you out's that negative cycle. And so the spouse will end up not asking for wants and needs. They stop reaching out, they stop communicating. And what happens is resentment develops. Sometimes they're really angry with their spouse, just resentment develops. And that's really important because from there they start feeling alone. They start feeling sad and depressed, they start feeling numb. And what's really happening, Morgan, is they're caring less about their marriage or their relationship and their easy fruit for an affair. And so there's these different things that happen because people get beat up by the negative cycle, resentment develops, start feeling alone, start feeling sad and depressed, start feeling numb, and they're starting to care less about maintaining that marriage, maintaining that relationship and their easy fruit for an affair. And the other thing that can happen is they're closed off to their spouse emotionally and they may be seeking connection elsewhere. So sometimes people are easy fruit for somebody else to initiate with

Brad:

Them,

Brad:

But at times people could be resentful enough where they're going to go initiate with somebody else.

Morgan:

Wow.

Brad:

And so that happens as well

Morgan:

And they begin to rationalize, is that right? Rationalize this connection with a friend who is just a friend or just a

Brad:

Coworker. And Morgan, what's happening is if Affairs happened when someone closes a door to their spouse and they open a door to someone else, I'm no longer communicating with you

Because this negative cycle is beating me up or I'm not asking for my wants and needs. What happens is closing a door to their spouse and they're opening a door to someone else, and then they're going to share with them. Contact can be made with the affair partner and sometimes they've been friends with the affair partner all along. So when the betrayer gets involved or the involved spouse gets involved in the affair, it's typically somebody they've known for a while. It's generally not somebody they just met. It's not a one night stand type of thing. Typically it can be though, but they have contact with the affair partner. It's somebody that they may have known all along and the affair makes 'em feel good about themselves.

Morgan:

If there's depression, it lifts the depression.

Brad:

If they've been depressed, they've been feeling alone, they haven't felt attractive. If they haven't been having sex with their spouse and they get this attention from somebody else, they begin to feel good about themselves. They like how they feel. And Morgan talked about before in understanding why affairs happened like we've talked about before in finding meaning. The question to ask to understand why this particular affair happened is to ask how were you different? And that's generally how people feel about themselves. How did you feel about yourself? How were you different? How did you feel differently? How were you different as a person

Morgan:

While the affair was happening,

Brad:

While the affair was happening? What did you like about yourself?

Those are all things for people to consider to talk about because that's generally what's going on. And so far we have a fair start with a negative cycle that leads people to feeling burnt out, tired or feel beat up by that negative cycle. They don't feel like they're good enough for their spouse anymore in a sense. They may already feel rejected by their spouse, maybe even abandoned by their spouse. At times, people do feel that way, and that happens more often than you would think. So they no longer ask for once and needs. There's resentment there. They start feeling alone, they're sad, they're depressed, they feel numb, and then they start caring less about the marriage. Those are the things that can happen in any order that get people to start caring less about their marriage or relationship, and they're easy fruit for an affair

Brad:

To

Brad:

Be picked off or to initiate their own, and they have contact with the affair partner who may be somebody they've known all along. It may not be somebody new, and what can happen from there is they develop feelings for the affair partner or they can fall into limerence,

Morgan:

Which

Brad:

Is a romantic love, love addiction, obsessive love infatuation,

Morgan:

But it's not based on a reality.

Brad:

Yeah, that's not based on a reality,

Morgan:

Right?

Brad:

It's based on a fantasy,

Morgan:

But

Brad:

Then they can develop feelings for that person and the affair will be going on. It's happening once the affair is discovered. It can make it difficult for some people to end the affair once they've been caught once they've been found out, but that's the general framework of why people have an affair. A lot of clients have discussed this with people who've been involved in an affair, and I would say the overwhelming majority of people who've cheated, have cheated because of what we talked about just a moment ago, feeling burned out or tired, beat up by the negative cycle, and they even feel beat up by the negative cycle of avoid, avoid because they don't think they matter anymore to their spouse. They feel like they're not good enough. They feel like they're not wanted anymore. They have real concerns about it, and so they go through this progression, this stage of feeling like they can't communicate, they can't share. Their spouse isn't there for them. They're no longer dependable. I can't go to them. They're going to be angry with me. They're going to be upset somehow. I don't make them happy.

Morgan:

Somehow I'll fall short or I'll fail or I won't measure up to their expectations,

Brad:

And part of this is so they go through this serious of progression, this psychology of betrayal. They'll go through the psychology of this mindset of someone who cheats. They'll develop, they'll have contact with the affair partner. The affair will start, feelings will develop for the affair partner. The affair will happen and will be happening. Then once the affair is made known,

Morgan:

Because it always will eventually,

Brad:

Yeah, typically it's more often than not, it's made known. Then Morgan, once it's made known for some people, almost every couple, there's a period of ambiguity, that uncertainty that they go through. Are we going to stay together or are we going to be done? We'll keep talking about this. Thank you for listening today. Yes, have a wonderful week guys. Thanks for listening to Healing Broken Trust. If you like this episode, you can always get our show notes and more details and links to the resources we discussed@healingbrokentrust.com. Also, as long as you're online, head on over to healing broken trust.com/retreat for details on an upcoming one-on-one retreat with me. If you like us, please subscribe and leave a review for us on iTunes. As always, everything discussed on this podcast is either my opinion or Morgan's opinion and is not to be taken as relationship advice because I'm not your therapist, nor have I considered your personal situation as your therapist. This podcast is for your entertainment and education only, and I really do hope you've enjoyed it. See you Until next time.

Ep 12: Should I Stay Or Go? What To Do When You're Not Sure You Want To Save The Relationship. The One Thing Holding You Back From Progress.

Brad:

How will the children suffer from a breakup of your marriage?

Morgan:

Yeah, those

Brad:

Are good because it would be a disaster scenario. And I'm a product of a broken home. My father cheated on my mother and they were divorced. It was a disaster after that. And so you need to think about the kids as well.

Morgan:

You are listening to Healing Broken Trust podcast with Brad and Morgan Robinson, where we talk about healing from affairs and fidelity trust and cheating in your relationship from the perspective of a professional marriage therapist and a fair recovery expert. If you're wanting to heal your marriage, this podcast is for you. And we're officially on episode number 12 and we're talking about should I stay or should I go? And that's a really important question because people really struggle with that. Should I stay? Should I go, should I work on this? Should I not? Is it going to work? Can we fix this? So we're going to talk about this in episode 12, and I want to encourage you to go over to healing broken trust.com/episode 12. That's Healing broken trust.com/episode and the number 12, and download those free resources so that you can get some help. Really, we want to help you through this process and it's a great way to expedite healing and to help you through this process. So go to healing broken trust.com/episode 12. And let's get started.

Brad:

You're listening to How to Recover From An Affair with Brad and Morgan Robinson. I'm Brad Robinson.

Morgan:

And I'm Morgan Robinson. And today we're talking about handling the ambiguous feelings and questions about staying or leaving after infidelity in the relationship. This is a very important topic and basically the emotional storm that occurs after betrayed spouses find out about the affair causes a very intense emotional disorientation. And we strongly recommend that couples wait six to 12 weeks after discovering the affair before they decide that they're completely done with their mate. One of the common feelings after learning about an affair is shock. After that period, reality begins to set in allowing plenty of time to make the decision, ensures that the decision will be easier to live with. Right, Brad?

Brad:

Yeah, and Morgan, that's why we asked for couples and individuals who've been affected by this to really give themselves six to 12 weeks before they decide they're done. And Morgan, there's a couple that I've worked with where then they've been married for 20 years. The wife had an emotional affair with a boyfriend that she met from high school. This was somebody that she met on Facebook. And for this couple and almost all couples after an affair, there is this period of questioning if they want to stay married or divorced. And that period can take several days or several months.

Morgan:

Interesting.

Brad:

And it can make it harder to heal when you're stuck in this place of uncertainty. Do I want to be here or not? And that's really important because the longer somebody's uncertain about wanting to stay or heal, it's harder for them to be a supporter and a nurturer for their spouse because they're still stuck on themselves. They haven't made the full commitment recommitment back into the marriage. And so the spouse who's been betrayed is really wavering

Morgan:

Right back and forth. And during this time, emotions are all over the map. They're emotions like anger, guilt, disgust, shame, humiliation and fear because emotions are heightened and will eventually subside. Our advice is to not make any major life decisions right now while the ability to think clearly and rationalize as compromised, including the decision to leave. Most people who decide to leave after an affair without trying to work things out first will later, usually later regret not trying to sort through the mess.

Brad:

Yeah.

Morgan:

So both Go ahead.

Brad:

Yeah, you're right, Morgan. Because they regret not trying the effort. It's the what if we could have made it

Morgan:

Right?

Brad:

I'll never know. So I'm in favor of trying to make it work.

Morgan:

Yeah, absolutely. And you have to consider too, if you're not willing to at least heal from what happened, a lot of times you bring that baggage into the next relationship. If you do decide to get remarried again.

Morgan:

Yeah, you

Morgan:

Can. You really don't. If you haven't worked through those problems, you can really cause more problems in the next relationship. But those who do try to work on the marriage and if they later divorce, rarely regret trying to work on the marriage, they don't regret it. A lot of times because of what I just said, you are healing as a person, as an individual, as well as the relationship

Brad:

They find sane and trying to work on the marriage, brought them closure

Morgan:

And

Brad:

Help them have peace of mind about leaving.

Morgan:

Exactly.

Brad:

And so Morgan, my advice to couples is to make the effort to work this out while they have the opportunity instead of facing regret in the future. And several months ago, I had a worked with a couple who'd been married for 10 years. The husband was a high level executive in his company who did a lot of traveling.

Morgan:

His

Brad:

Wife was suspicious, discovered the affair. He initially lied about the affair, blowing it off as just a friend. When they came to see me, they both were debating about whether to continue the marriage or end it. My advice to them is the same advice I'm giving to our listeners. He wanted to try to make it work, and he followed my advice very well, but she felt like she would be better off without him and let him know she didn't want to continue the marriage. That was the last I saw of them. And this is a woman who felt like God was telling her who need to leave him because I'm going to give you a ministry to help other women who've experienced this. Well, how come she couldn't have a ministry? That was one where they reconciled

Morgan:

And there was healing involved

Brad:

And healing and not just, well, I'm going to be done

Morgan:

Because

Brad:

I don't financially need you. So the wife later called her office and said that her husband had left her for the other woman.

Morgan:

Right? I spoke with her that day, I remember,

Brad:

But isn't what happened at all. He wanted to try to fix the marriage and repair it because of the strong emotions associated with this. She decided she was done without really trying to salvage what was left of their marriage. When she called, she was filled with regret because she didn't take the time to make a well-thought out decision that she could live with.

Morgan:

That was a really sad day. I remember that. So like this client, the initial reaction of many people is to say the marriage is over after affair is discovered, but calling it quits, that's a bit premature and shortsighted in a lot of ways, and most people do work it out. But putting effort into saving the marriage and being a loving, supportive partner can really help spouses feel like they gave their marriage the best chance they could. And once they start seeing improvement and feeling like their marriage is moving ahead in a positive way, their commitment will likely increase. So a lot of people just can't see the forest from the trees in the beginning.

Brad:

And Morgan something, and this is really important for those of you listening, when you are discussing the future of the marriage, if you're spending time talking with friends, you want to talk to friends and family who are friends of the marriage. And by that term, I mean people who are pro-marriage are objective, who realize there's two sides to every

Brad:

Story.

Brad:

It's really funny if you listen to somebody, we had this happen recently with us where somebody was talking to, and it's not even about a relationship issue as a couple. It was just somebody, we knew both of them, and they were talking to us about a work situation they were in, and one person was talking to us about it and made the other person sound horrible. And then you hear the other person talk about it, you get more of a well-rounded picture of the whole thing. There's two sides to every story. And you need to talk. If you're going to talk to anybody, you want to talk to people who know that there's two sides to every story who have a well-rounded perspective on things,

Morgan:

And they're pro your relationship and pro-marriage.

Brad:

Yeah. And they want to see you guys work out. And so unfortunately though a few people understand how affairs work and how they occur and how to heal from

Morgan:

One.

Brad:

And so friends and family members can express strong reactions and opinions about what the couple should do with the affair. So they're going to really let you know.

Morgan:

And

Brad:

So those reactions can affect your decision making. But we encourage you to remember that you are the only one who's going to live with the outcome of this decision, and therefore the decision is yours alone.

Morgan:

Exactly. Exactly. And during this six to 12 week period of ambiguity where you're not sure should you stay, should you go, what should you do? Another helpful step is to read as much as you can about affairs and the process. Listen to our recordings and read and learn about how to heal from an affair. You never know what one idea or key piece of information will impact your perspective. So keep that in

Brad:

Mind. That's good advice,

Morgan:

Morgan.

Brad:

Now I want to give our listeners some different questions that they need to work through and ask themselves. And so as you're listening to this, you may want to pull out a pad of paper and a pen. Write these down, think on paper and

Morgan:

Try not to be driving at the moment.

Brad:

And you can re-listen to this over and over again and just try to sort this out. The clearer this is, the better this decision you'll be able to work with and live with. And so here's something that you need to consider and questions you need to ask yourself. You really want to see the future. You want to speculate what the future will be like for you without your spouse. So what will life be like without this person? What's going to happen in the immediate future, five years from now, 10 years from now, 20 years from now without this person in my life? So look down the road as far as you can and speculate what it would be like without your spouse.

Morgan:

How would your life be different?

Brad:

How would your children's lives be different?

Morgan:

How would your current friendships be different?

Brad:

How would you manage family events separately?

Morgan:

How would the following be different for you in the future? How would having fun be different? How would religion or spiritual connections be different? How would activities, interests, or hobbies you share, how would that be different personal goals and dreams? What would change about those? How would those be different?

Brad:

And you also want to look at the past. You don't want to let current emotions keep you from seeing your past objectively. And what can happen is when things are a little bit more negative, 51% negative, people will rewrite their relationship history and see it more negative

Morgan:

Kind of through these negative sunglasses.

Brad:

Yeah, these negative glasses. And so you need to ask yourself, what do you remember about the good times you shared with your partner?

Morgan:

What would you miss about your marriage?

Brad:

What do you value about you and your partner as a couple?

Morgan:

What is your marriage like at its best? And at its worst,

Brad:

What particular qualities of your partner do you value?

Morgan:

What positive qualities does your partner bring out in you?

Brad:

Have you and your spouse struggled together to get to this place in your life?

Morgan:

What are the qualities you don't care for in your partner? And about the marriage? What did you contribute? And what ways did you two work as a team or not work as a team?

Brad:

What negative impact does divorcing have on your spouse? What negative impact does the divorce have on you? What negative impact does divorce have on your family, on your work, on your friends, et cetera,

Morgan:

Right? And putting your hurt aside, trying to set that aside for a moment. What are the reasons for staying with your spouse?

Brad:

Look past the affair. Do you love your spouse? And again, it's normal to not like or even despise the person after they've had an affair,

Morgan:

Right?

Brad:

But do you love your spouse?

Morgan:

Right? At a fundamental level, do you like your spouse as a person, even before the affair? Did you like your spouse? When did you like your spouse the most? Try to reimagine your wedding day. Try to go back to that place when you were really the closest.

Brad:

Are you and your spouse somewhat compatible?

Morgan:

Exactly. And the fourth one, are you willing to work on the marriage? Are you willing to work on it?

Brad:

And are you willing to work towards forgiveness for what may have been done to injure your spouse?

Morgan:

Are you willing to understand what vulnerabilities may have been present for an affair to even happen? Right?

Brad:

Yeah. And Morgan, something that's really important with this is we're talking about compatibility. Do you love them? Many people will say, I love them, but I'm not in love with them. And what you need to understand if that's how you feel is an affair, is a tremendous opportunity for growth. Sure, there's a lot of remorse, pain, shame, chaos, but it's tremendous opportunity for growth. It's that you are working on marriage number two, you are in round two of your marriage.

Morgan:

You're

Brad:

Working on this and you can rebuild it. Marriage number one is dead.

Morgan:

And

Brad:

So you guys have a say in both of you, rebuilding this from the ground up, changing things. And that's important. So it's not like, okay, I don't love this person. Now I got to go back to 'em. Right? You can change how you feel towards this person,

Morgan:

Right? By the choices that you make.

Brad:

You can regain your feelings for them if you are the one who had the affair or if you're the one who's been betrayed. And so that's really important to understand that.

Morgan:

Yeah, don't let temporary and present emotion keep you from working on this because romance can be rebuilt. Questions for the injured spouse to ask. Here's some questions for the injured spouse. The first one is ask yourself whether this affair is part of something larger such as a pattern of lying and cheating in your spouse, right?

Brad:

That's important to look at the larger pattern. What kind of pattern is here

Morgan:

Exactly?

Brad:

Have they cheated before?

Morgan:

Right? Can you trust your spouse to tell you the truth about other things?

Brad:

Can you depend on and trust your spouse for other things?

Morgan:

Exactly.

Brad:

Does your spouse understand your pain from this?

Morgan:

Right? They may not initially be understanding, but feel like you are overreacting possibly. But if they are listening to this and they're listening to what we have to say and they're reading about it, they'll start to understand better the trauma and the emotions surrounding an affair. But is your spouse willing to help you heal and move forward?

Brad:

Is your spouse willing to be part of the solution and moving the marriage forward?

Morgan:

Is your spouse genuinely remorseful for the affair?

Brad:

Is your spouse willing to learn from this and implement what he or she is learning?

Morgan:

And the next one is your spouse willing to acknowledge attractions to the opposite sex as normal and willing to discuss these temptations in the future.

Brad:

That's important.

Morgan:

That's very important. Being honest and open.

Brad:

Is your spouse willing to make a commitment to honesty about everything pertaining to your relationship? Does that even seem reasonable to you, them being completely honest about everything pertaining to the relationship?

Morgan:

And something to think about is that changes like these don't happen overnight, but is there a general movement in this direction? For the previous questions two through eight, are they moving in that direction?

Brad:

If you were to split for good,

Morgan:

Describe

Brad:

The disaster scenario that could follow. How will the children suffer from a breakup of your marriage? Yeah,

Morgan:

Those are pretty

Brad:

Good. It would be a disaster scenario. And I'm a product of a broken home. My father cheated on my mother and they were divorced. It was a disaster after that. And so you'd need to think about the kids as well.

Morgan:

So if you ever wondered why Brad got into this field now, anyways, so we were talking about questions for the injured spouse to ask, and now we've got questions for the involved spouse

Brad:

To ask the spouse who had the affair. These are questions that you need to ask yourself. And when you're deciding if you should stay or go, it's important to understand that you do not want to make a decision because you are comparing an exciting, illicit passionate affair with a stable relationship.

Morgan:

One thing we talk about too is that you can bring that passion and excitement into your marriage. Once it's healed,

Brad:

You can, well, you can create intimacy.

Morgan:

True.

Brad:

It's kind of like comparing, well, do I want, you can't live in Disney World. You just can't. You can go visit it, but you can't live in it. And sometimes that's what people want do is they want to bring Disney World home with them and have their whole world be Disney World. Your whole life be Disney World. And that's what you're doing when you're saying, when you're comparing a normal relationship, your normal marriage, this

Morgan:

To a fantasy

Brad:

To reality to fantasy.

Morgan:

Exactly.

Brad:

You're often fantasy, world fantasy land,

Morgan:

And only 3% of people who do marry their fair partner are able to have a long-term marriage. That's a small percentage.

Brad:

3%. Yeah. It's a very small percentage of people who do marry their affair partner that's able to have a long-term marriage. And the reason for that is, is because they struggle to trust each other. The affair partner won't be able to trust them because you left your

Morgan:

Marriage, you left your marriage. Why not do the, you're

Brad:

Pledging to remain faithful when you showed that person you could not be faithful and you're not going to be able to trust them and you're leaving them because there's these illicit, passionate, romantic feelings that don't last. That's not normal. They

Morgan:

Subside right? In a cornerstone of a relationship, a solid marriage is trust.

Brad:

It's trust. It's dependability. But those feelings are fleeting. They're there to help you attach to a person. They're not there to build a relationship. In fact, most people who do marry never experience that kind of relationship. They experience more of a companionship type relationship. They don't experience this fantasy,

Morgan:

Fairytale, fantasy fairytale type thing. Barbie's dream house.

Brad:

Yeah, they don't experience that.

Morgan:

Exactly.

Brad:

And so basically questions you need to ask if you've had the affair, if you need to stay or go, here's the first question you need to ask. You need to see yourself married or in a long-term relationship with the affair partner, picture yourself, married or in a long-term relationship with this person. And ask yourself, what would the future look like for you as a couple, 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now

Brad:

Without,

Brad:

And you need to look at this Morgan, without the feelings being there, the passionate feelings, they're not going to be there. What other characteristics does this person have? What negative characteristics do they have?

Morgan:

Right? You're going to have bills, you're going to have mortgage, you're going to have children, possibly. You're going to have all of those stressors. What would that be like?

Brad:

Morgan, and I want to emphasize this because typically people do not look at the negative in a person when they're having an exciting, illicit passionate affair.

Brad:

Secret right

Brad:

Affair. When they're obsessed with a person, they're not looking at their negative qualities.

Morgan:

Exactly.

Brad:

They're not even conscious of them.

Morgan:

So the next question would be, does he or she want to have children if he or she already has children, does he or she want to start a new family in the future? Do your life dreams add up? Do they match up what you want? Do they want,

Brad:

Yeah. Do they want children?

Morgan:

That's one.

Brad:

How difficult would it be for you and your fair partner to raise each other's kids together?

Morgan:

Right. Blended families. They have their own challenges. They do. How would your children handle and incorporate into their family the person who broke up their family? That's interesting.

Brad:

Yeah. You need to consider how that's going to impact. So how would your children handle and incorporate?

Morgan:

Could they respect that person, that

Brad:

Person as a stepparent?

Morgan:

Exactly.

Brad:

That's going to be, yeah. And we've known people like that personally outside of counseling who've experienced that. So what were the things that you found attractive about the affair partner? If these traits were to become magnified, would you still find them desirable? For example, if how your fair partner is always social butterfly, imagine what it would be like to be with someone who was always flirting.

Morgan:

Exactly. Exactly. So

Brad:

You need to ask yourself, would these qualities be magnified that you like? And you need to also look at their negative qualities and ask yourself, what if these became magnified?

Morgan:

Right. Considering living with that.

Brad:

Yeah, because it will, like we mentioned earlier, Morgan, like you said earlier, you wear these glasses of romantic love, of obsessive love where you feel addicted to this person, infatuated with this person. You don't see their negative qualities, their average qualities are even heightened, and all you see is this good stuff. So

Morgan:

Right. And the second one that we want to talk about is what will it be like when the fantasy or infatuation of an illicit affair week wears off 10 years from now? What would it be like after that? Like you're saying, magnifying these common traits that you are seeing as positive Now, how could they be switched or flipped?

Brad:

Would you divorce your spouse even if the relationship with the affair partner doesn't work out?

Morgan:

Think about the future 10 to 20 years from now. Where do you want to be living? How do you want to spend your time? What activities give you pleasure? What makes you happy right now in the past? And how would that affect your future?

Brad:

What happens to the dreams of growing old together with your spouse? What did you plan on you two doing during that time?

Morgan:

What

Brad:

Did you plan on this retirement period? What happened to those dreams that you had with your spouse?

Morgan:

If you were to end your marriage for good, describe the disaster scenario that could follow. What would it look like with your kids, with your feelings, with your finances? What would happen? What would it look like?

Brad:

And you also need to give yourself an honest assessment of how the children would suffer from the disillusion of your marriage. And Morgan, I just want to state in my opinion about this, I would never leave my spouse to be with a fair partner.

Morgan:

Thank you. I really appreciate that.

Brad:

Well, not just you, but I'm saying for our listeners, knowing what I know, if I were in that situation, I would never leave to go be with that other person because it doesn't work. The people I've worked with who've met because of an affair, they're the hardest couples to work with. They don't trust each other. It's like constant fighting and bickering. It's very difficult. They don't have the fundamental foundation of security and trust that you need to have to make a relationship grow.

Brad:

Exactly.

Brad:

They're lacking it, and they don't last long. They just don't. And they're a pain in the butt to work with.

Morgan:

They built their house on sand.

Brad:

And so what you need to know is, and this is something else people need to realize, Morgan, is that being securely connected with your mate, it's the best protection and form of healing after an affair.

Morgan:

Absolutely. Research shows that,

Brad:

Yeah, that's from research, but so being connected emotionally, it helps you heal from an affair and it can help you being connected and emotionally even during this UNC times of uncertainty can help you heal. And if your spouse is leaning out of the marriage, you may want to listen to what we did on the show that we did on how to manage that time. If your spouse is wanting to leave, things that you need to be aware of and things that you can do to help that help stop

Brad:

Your divorce.

Brad:

Yeah, and let me say this though too. People who get caught up in the liran affair, which we've talked about as well, they can complicate how the betrayer feels about ending the affair. Obviously this can make it a difficult period of uncertainty about the future of the marriage. So go look at our information on RIN and RIN Affairs because that can also affect your ability to recover from an affair

Morgan:

And to look at things objectively,

Brad:

Look at things objectively and know if you want to stay or go. And many times, the betrayer, if they're caught up in Limerence, they're very stuck in determining if they want to stay or go

Morgan:

More so than any other type of affair.

Brad:

Yeah, they're very wishy-washy. I don't know if I want to be here. I don't know if I want to stay or go. Sometimes they'll leave. They'll come back. And so you need to look at our information that we've developed on Lime limerence and Limerent Affairs.

Morgan:

Yep. Absolutely.

Brad:

Thank you for listening to How to Recover from an Affair. I'm Brad Robinson.

Morgan:

And I'm Morgan Robinson. You have a wonderful week.

Brad:

Thank you. Take care. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Healing Broken Trust. If you like this episode, you can always get our show notes and more details and links to the resources we discussed at healingbrokentrust.com. Also, as long as you're online, head on over to healing broken trust.com/retreat for details on an upcoming one-on-one retreat with me. If you like us, please subscribe and leave a review for us on iTunes. As always, everything discussed on this podcast is either my opinion or Morgan's opinion and is not to be taken as relationship advice because I'm not your therapist, nor have I considered your personal situation as your therapist. This podcast is for your entertainment and education only, and I really do hope you've enjoyed it. See you Until next time.

Ep 26: Why Do They Lie?

Ep 34: When the Affair Becomes Public

Ep 62: The Crucial Moments After The Affair