Ep 73: How they felt about you during their affair

Ep 5: 1st Steps To Truly Healing And Moving On

One of the first steps to healing is to get started. Listen to this and then join us for the Complete Healing Broken Trust Program

Has it been hard to break out of the negative feedback loop?

If you have listened to our podcast you are familiar with the patterns of interaction that keeps couples stuck in the healing process.

It's what makes communication so dang hard!  And ultimately what makes healing together pretty impossible.

Yesterday I outlined the 4 crucial components to Healing Broken Trust completely.

Check out 31 Secrets to Healing Broken Trust Minicourse

Today let's talk about the Application stage of the puzzle.

The reason so many struggle to get out of the negative patterns of interaction AKA Negative Feedback Loop is because:

You need help taking the head knowledge and making it heart knowledge.

No other counselor, therapist, coach, program, book, or vacation can do this for you like we can.

But why not?

Simple, it's not taught in school.

Let me give an example...

I was speaking with a man the other day who said that his therapist told him that he needed to forgive his wife.  

The therapist said he needed to write it down on a piece of paper and bury it in the backyard and never bring it up again.

Sadly this is common.  Have you been told this before?  How would that work for you?

The problem is, not only is it extremely dismissive of his feelings and needs, but it's going to make the underlying issues that caused the affair so much worse!

But bless the therapist's heart he was doing his best! 

Frankly, you deserve better.  So does everyone you love and ever will love because this is your whole life we're talking about here!!

Over the last 16 years we've worked with couples 1-on-1 and in workshops and have helped them actually heal.  

We know what other helpers don't know.

• We know that you can't do marriage work when trust is still broken....that means a vacation won't fix it.

• We know how to heal your emotions so you can actually be present with your spouse so trust can be restored....boy it's hard to talk when you're upset.

• We know how to give you long term results so you don't stay stuck in patterns that give you the same old results over and over.

There's so much more...

The point is you need the right person, with the right skills and knowledge, to help you apply the information you're learning.

And someone who knows how to get to the heart of the matter so you're not spinning your wheels wasting years of your life.

How we help...

1. Join the program HERE

2. You'll be able to immediately login and work through our couples master class and individual master class simultaneously.

3. Listen to a pre-recorded workshop and/or RSVP for a upcoming live workshop. 

4. And join the live weekly group meetings

Ep 8: Did They Really End The Affair? Is It Really Over? Why Is It Important To End The Affair The Right Way? How to Cut Off The Affair Parter For Good This Time.

Brad:

An apology and a verbal commitment isn't enough.

Morgan:

You are listening to Healing Broken Trust podcast with Brad Morgan Robinson. This is a podcast where we talk about healing from affairs, infidelity, trust, and cheating in your relationship. So if you're wanting to heal your marriage after any of these things, this is the podcast for you. And in episode eight, we're talking about how do you cut off the affair partner. So it's really important obviously, to cut off the affair partner, but one thing we want to remind you is we have free resources to help you through this process. If you go to healing broken trust.com/episode eight, that's episode the number eight, you can download our free resources there to help you through this process. So if you're in this position where you're struggling to cut off the affair partner, you might want to go back to episode four where we talk about how to fall out of love with the affair partner. That's really important. Episode two is also a really good one where we talk about limerence as well. So go back to those. Those can really help you if you are struggling to kind of cut off the affair. So that's really important. But with that, let's get started.

Today we're talking about how to end an affair. It seems clear to many of us that we can't have an affair partner in our marriage relationship in a relationship. But why is it that you can't gloss over this important step of cutting off the affair,

Brad:

Brad? Well, there's several reasons why some of 'em are quite obvious, but many times when people do have an affair, they think an apology is enough. They think that I've apologized, I've made a verbal commitment that should be good enough, and it's really not. And there's several reasons why an apology and a verbal commitment isn't enough. A verbal commitment to your spouse isn't enough. Part of that is because your spouse is terrified that this is going to happen again. I hear constantly from everybody who's been betrayed, they always say, how do I know this won't happen again? And if you don't cut this person out of your life in the right way, you're not creating safety for your marriage to go on for your marriage to heal. And so number, well, there's several different reasons why it's important to cut off the affair partner. I'm just going to go through a couple of them. I think the first is, is it sends the wrong message to your spouse and the affair partner still, he never told me it was over or she never told me it was over. So are they just busy right now or

Morgan:

Yeah, I guess I can just check up with them week.

Brad:

I'll check up with 'em later. Yeah, maybe they're just busy. We didn't talk every day anyway, so they're going to contact you again later.

Morgan:

And that's the affair partner.

Brad:

Yeah, that's the affair partner thinking that you don't send, it sends a message to your spouse. I'm not really serious about rebuilding this. I'm not really serious about building this back. And that's

Morgan:

One foot in, one foot out,

Brad:

And that's a dangerous place to be. So like I said earlier, ending the affair, it's vital to creating safety for the injured spouse, the betrayed spouse. They need to know this won't happen again. And that's a big step towards creating that safety. Also, ending the affair is vital to ending your own ambiguity about if you want to stay or not. Many people I've worked with who have been still had contact with the affair partner, whether they worked with them or didn't work with them, but had contact with them, they stayed in that period of ambiguity. We discussed where they were kind of, I don't know if I want to be here, if I want to be out. And so what happened is, is they really guilt developed and a lot of shame developed. And then they felt like, well, you don't deserve me. I'm not a good person. And that's because they've still kept this relationship up, whether the affair was going on or not, they still had some relationship with the affair partner

And they felt guilty about that and they wanted in their marriage because they felt guilty about it themselves. And so they had this overwhelming guilt, I'm not a good person. You don't deserve me, am not good enough for you. And that's the betrayer saying this. And sometimes that comes from them having an ongoing relationship with the affair partner. Maybe it's morphed into a friendship and even that is not healthy. And so that keeps them as time goes on, just feeling like I'm not good enough. I can't do this. You don't deserve me. And in that's really because in part they haven't ended the affair

Morgan:

And they're saying, you don't deserve me. You don't deserve what I'm doing to you. It's not so much you don't deserve me.

Brad:

No, it's not like that at all. Yeah. It's like it's really coming from a place of shame. I'm a bad person

Morgan:

And I've done so many bad things to you. I've

Brad:

Heard even in their spouse is saying, I forgive you. I want to be with you. It comes from that and that happens. And then the other is obviously you can't rebuild trust. I still see you with this person. I still see them emailing you stuff related to work or this or that. And some of you listening to this are just probably flabbergasted thinking, oh my gosh, this happens. Some people, they try to minimize the affair. And

Morgan:

So because rather it disappear than actually handle it or deal with it.

Brad:

Yeah, actually handle it or deal with it. And so there's things like that. There are things like that that happen that have to be clearly dealt with, and we're going to get into that in a second. But you have to cut off the affair so that you as a couple, you and your spouse can move forward in the healing process, rebuild your relationship. And here's the kicker. The involved spouse must cut off all intimate relations with the affair partner. And occasionally people work with the affair partner and they find themselves, you work with this person. So you have to. And in situations like that where you work with them, it's hard to get away. It's hard to get away. But here's one of the things too though, is if that's the situation you're in, you everything, you must not discuss anything personal with them. And you must do

Morgan:

Everything you can to get away from them if you possibly can.

Brad:

Yeah, I would recommend that everything, but you got to keep it business if that's it. And you need to let your spouse know what's going on, they're going to be asking you probably, but you need to let 'em know. And so with that, Morgan, let's get into

Morgan:

The rules for separating from the affair partner, how to do it basically.

Brad:

Yeah,

Morgan:

You want to start with the first one?

Brad:

Yeah. The first is allow the betrayed spouse to participate in the severance. And here's why that's important. Allowing the betrayed spouse to have a say in how it is done will help that person find closure as well. Also because the affair involved secrecy, this moment of truth is refreshing. It's important to remember and reinforce that couples are team.

Brad:

Here's the kicker with this though, is I have seen people, they come into my office and say, I ended the affair, but their spouse didn't participate in the severance. They have no idea.

And this person may have, and here's the thing, when you're in an affair, obviously you're lying. You're being dishonest about what's happening, what's going on, and your spouse doesn't know what to believe. And so anything that you say or do, if you say anything like, oh, I did it already, or I told her this or that or told him this or that, they don't know.

Morgan:

There's no

Brad:

Way them knowing. And the idea with this is one of the things is it creates safety. So you really need to let them participate in this. That doesn't mean that they need to write the email for you. That doesn't mean they need to do it for you. That just means if you're going to do it over the phone, you need to do it yourself. Call them over the phone and use your own words and talk to 'em. Your spouse doesn't need to say, oh, John says it's over, so quit calling him. That's not going to work. That doesn't create any safety for them, and it doesn't send the clear message to the affair partner that it's over. And so you have to do it.

Morgan:

They just might be on the other line maybe listening in or standing there, or they might say, well, you really need to tell 'em like this instead of that, because to me, this sounds more like you're cutting it off

Brad:

Versus

Morgan:

I'm doing it for the kids or whatever.

Brad:

Yeah, exactly. The second one is make it a clear absolute severance. And so as, as the person who had the affair, there are plenty of ways or a number of ways to separate from the affair partner. And when you do this, you should not leave any glimmer of hope that you are still open to an affair. You have to show them, look, I'm not interested in you. I love my spouse. I want to be with my spouse. I'm doing this because I want to be there

Morgan:

And what we were doing is wrong and I will not be doing it ever again with you or anyone else.

Brad:

And so you have to have this certainty. I am certain about this, and that's expressed through tone of voice, body language and your word choice, the choice of words that you use. Do

Morgan:

Not call me ever again.

Brad:

Yeah, I am done. Do not call me again. I love my wife, I love my husband. And so it has to be with clear severance. And here's why this is so important, why you have to make this clear, why it has to come from the person who had the affair is many times as affairs grow and mature, these things can last not just months, but sometimes a couple of years, sometimes even longer than that. And people feel like they're genuinely in love with this other person. And you may be done, but that other person isn't done yet. And

Morgan:

The betrayer,

Brad:

Well, the affair partner, they're not done yet. And so you have to let them know, look, we are done. There's no us anymore. There's no future. All the things that we talked about, us leaving our spouses to be with each other, that's not going to happen anymore. I don't want to do that. I don't want to be with you. You have to get to that level, not necessarily being cruel. You want to do, be short of being cruel, but you want to be forceful. You want to let 'em know that you're certain about you being

Morgan:

Done. And that leads us to the third one. Do not be cordial or kind when severing the relationship. This should not be a friendly conversation. You don't want to be cruel, but we believe the colder and more absolute the better. In fact, it's cruel to the fair partner if there's even a glimmer of hope that this will ever happen again. So more importantly, it's crucial. Obviously, more importantly, it's crucial to the betrayed spouse, your spouse. So they're not led to believe that unfaithfulness will occur at any point in the future. So yeah, you don't want to be like, well, I don't want to hurt your feelings and I don't want you to feel bad, so good luck to you. No, I'm sorry. This is not ever happening again, right? So don't call me.

Brad:

Yeah. And yeah, it needs to be very, very black and white. I'm done to the point, you're not kind. You're not friendly when you do this. And if you have to work with a person, maybe you're professional, but you're not kind and friendly. You're not sitting around the water cooler anymore. You're not going on lunch breaks,

Morgan:

Obviously, right? You're changing habits. Changing patterns too.

Brad:

Yeah. You're not sending any mixed signals. Sometimes people when just being kind, sometimes that can be interpreted as being flirty or that you have an interest. And so you have to be really, really careful. You're not just being kind that can send the message. I'm still open to you that can send the message of being flirty, that kind of thing. I'm interested. You can't do that. Now when you end this, the fourth part of this is when you do this, you're doing it for love. It's important not to tell the affair partner. The relationship is ending. Our affair is ending for the kids

Brad:

Because of my kids or because I want them to grow up with mom and dad together or because of the commitment you made or out of duty to the family, things like that. Instead, it needs to be because you are emphasizing the love you feel for your spouse,

Morgan:

Right? So definitely it's about you and your spouse that you love your spouse, you want to reconnect with your spouse and that there's no room at all for them in any of that. It's not because they're making me or anything

Brad:

Like that. And also you could emphasize that, look, this was a complete and total mistake. Also using specific language such as Never contact me again. I do not want to talk to you, or I do not want any sort of intimate relationship with you ever again. Things like that, phrases like that. You never contact me again. I don't want to talk to you again. I don't want any sort of intimate relationship or contact,

Brad:

Things Like that. It sends a clear message that I am done

Morgan:

And repeat yourself. You have to stand your ground. Sometimes they might try to remind you of what this or that send you a text or something, got to hold your ground there and you've got to include your spouse. So if they ever did contact you again, maybe next week or next month, next year, whatever, you're completely open and honest. We've talked about that being very honest and forthright.

Brad:

And Morgan, you're right. I would say, I don't know what the exact percentages are, but I would say there is a good chance that the affair partner is going to contact you again after you try this. And it's more testing for them. This was an affair as well. This was, or a relationship as well. And maybe they loved you, and so there's a good chance that they're going to try to contact you again. If that happens, you have to let your spouse know about it. Because what will happen is your spouse is probably going to find out, and if you don't tell 'em you're going to be in deeper water and the walls are going to go up, it's going to be harder to rebuild. This going to be less trust, transparency and honesty are the best, especially with this.

Morgan:

So it's like doing the opposite of what you're doing in the secrecy of,

Brad:

Oh yeah, that's a great way to look at it. You're really doing the opposite of how you were in the affair. In the affair. You were very secretive. You were very conniving. You were very dishonest. There was no transparency. Now that you're in a rebuilding phase, you have to be transparent. You have to shine light in the darkness. You have to be honest. You have to expose these secrets that rebuilds this. Now, part of this though is this other person needs to get it. No, in certain terms, you are done. And it has to come from a place of I love my wife. I am with this person. I love my husband. I am choosing to be with him. You are a mistake. And that's where it needs to come from. And here's the other thing I want to emphasize. This is at some point there is a good chance that the affair partner is going to try to make contact. Again, be transparent, be honest. It may cause a ripple effect just because your spouse is going to feel like, gosh, this person's really obsessed with my spouse. But either way, they're probably going to find out and it's going to help rebuild trust because you're bringing that information to them. They're going to see that you're trying, that. You're being honest and transparent. And so that's really important.

Morgan:

And it's just very important to also realize sometimes the out affair partner does seek you out. Sometimes they do have a part to play in this whole affair, and

Brad:

Yeah, they do. And let me share a story. Morgan,

We had a couple by the time they came in, maybe it was about 18 months into the affair, and this was somebody who had moved out, separated, moved out back in several times when I had worked with them, they had gotten to a place where the affair was ended, the marriage was being rebuilt. They both felt like they were really moving better, and the husband worked with her, but I was able to only see her briefly, and he was able to, he had a job where he could do certain things and work out of the office. And one day he had

Morgan:

Work out of the office, office,

Brad:

Home office. He was able to work from

Morgan:

Home.

Brad:

And what I meant to say is he wasn't always in the office, so he was able to work from home. He was doing that. And one day he had to go into the office and he saw this woman and just kind of made eye contact with her, just saw her and then he's back into it again. And then they spent 18 months of trying to get to this place of ending it. And just seeing her one time caused him to

Morgan:

Flip a switch and go back,

Brad:

Flip a switch and go back. Oh, man. And we talked about Limerence before, and I'll just briefly describe it this way. Limerence is, it's kind of romantic love, but more of an addiction to a person where they're like an object and it's an obsession. And that's kind of how he felt about this woman. And he was trying to end. It did really well. The marriage was working moving forward. They were growing together. Trust was being rebuilt. He encounters this, and then they're back into that whole cat and mouse scam again, and it's really devastating. So you have to take this seriously.

Brad:

You don't know where you think you might be. Look, you think you're strong enough to do this, but you're probably not really strong. You weren't strong enough to keep an affair from happening the first time. I know right now this is an emotional place for you. There's a lot of guilt as the betrayer, but you got to really take this seriously. You can't minimize this, and you've got to be very, very careful, and you can't underestimate just where that other person's at. So you have to take this seriously that I've got to end this. I've got to have clear boundaries. I've got to know in certain terms, let them know from my heart that I want to be with my spouse because I love them and I do not want to be with you. You are a mistake.

Morgan:

And it's kind of like going back just a tad bit about limerence. It's like an addiction, very much like an alcoholic. You can't just have one beer all of a sudden that takes you back to your addiction. So it's very important to realize that some, maybe you may have to just cut it off completely depends on you. But the fifth one, right? That's what we're on.

Brad:

Yeah, go ahead, Morgan.

Morgan:

It's don't look back. So basically don't look back. It's important to make a clean break. Sympathizing with the affair partner, trying to soften the significance of the conversation or implying any possibility of a future friendship confuses the affair partner, and it will open the door to more trouble. If your spouse is involved in helping you cut this off, they're going to hear this tone of voice. They're going to hear what you're saying. They're going to hear how you're

Brad:

Saying. They're going to hear what we're telling you to do,

Morgan:

And

Brad:

So they're going to hold you to it.

Morgan:

And that's good because it's helpful. It's going to help you. It's going to help your relationship. It's going to really ultimately do what's best for you in the future. And it's natural for a previously involved spouse to want to check up on the affair partner. But it's important to resist the temptation because a lot of times these relationships, they weren't just fly by night. I mean, these are things that happen over a long period of time sometimes, and so sometimes you want to check up on that person.

Brad:

Yeah. Well, yeah, everybody's curious. You're curious about people that you dated in the past and things like that, but here's the kicker. You had an affair with this Person.

Brad:

Yeah, you had an affair with this person. This is, if you're listening to this and you're working through this, you know how this can destroy your marriage very, very quickly. You don't look back. Block this person on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, other social media. Get this person completely out of your life. It's worth it. Yeah, it's not worth it, and you don't know what it can do. That person again, but it's hurting your spouse as well. You don't know if it's going to trigger something in you where you want to go be with that person again, but it's also not helping rebuild trust for your spouse. The next principle is there should be complete openness and honesty from now on. There should be no more secrecy between the two spouses, between you and your spouse as the betrayer. You must decide to volunteer any communication that may happen between you and your affair partner before being asked to do so.

Morgan:

Oh, that's

Brad:

Key. Yeah, that's really important. That includes text messages, face-to-face interaction, emails or anything else. It is important to avoid any communication with your affair partner, but if or when communication inevitably happens, the betrayer must be quick to share it with his or her spouse. Do not underestimate how helpful this will be if you do this. This will quickly help you guys rebuild things, and so don't underestimate how helpful that can be.

Morgan:

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Just being completely open and honest, man, it goes so far, so far. So yes, definitely volunteer that information before you're asked. But what about the next one? Right? We talked about maintaining a safe place, Brad, what is that? How do you maintain a safe place?

Brad:

Well, this is where the hurting spouse, the spouse, he's been betrayed, enters the process. It is very important for betrayed spouses to create an environment that encourages complete honesty. This means that when the spouse comes to them and tells them about communication with the affair partner

Brad:

It's crucial to maintain composure. So as a spouse who's been betrayed, you have to help them feel safe to talk about this because most betrayers don't want to talk about this because they feel like they already feel guilty enough and they don't want to make you hurt anymore.

Brad:

So if you are overreacting, you may be reacting, but your spouse will feel like you're overreacting. This is hurting you. I don't see the point of answering these questions. It's just making it worse. You have to help them feel safe in a sense to be able to talk to you

Morgan:

So that when or if they do get communication from a fair partner, that they know that if they're going to come to you, that you're going to not blow up. You're going to receive it with grace. You may not feel comfortable, but thanking them. Hey, thanks for being open. Thanks for being honest. I appreciate you coming and telling me this. It makes me feel a lot more secure. It makes me feel like you we're really going to make it

And you really can make it, and you really will if you are open and honest and cut that person off. And however they ended up with that story you just told about the guy who went back to work after working from home and just one look at that person kind of sent 'em back to their addiction. I mean, if he were to have just turned around, maybe even got out of there as soon as he could and went home to his wife and said, Hey, I accidentally looked at her. We were in the hallway. This happened, this happened. And your spouse can be that source of healing and can be a safe place.

Brad:

And one of the things with this is those kinds of things grow because they're secret. It just adds fuel to the fire. But one of the things to realize is this is a necessary step that has to be done. You have to cut off this person and the betrayer has to do it. It's best if the betrayed spouse is a part of this process. They're able to listen in and it's best if you say, I'm doing it out of love. You're not being kind or cordial.

Brad:

You're being short of being cruel. You're letting them know you were a mistake. I love my wife. I love my husband. I'm going to be with them. You are a mistake. I don't want to talk to you again.

Morgan:

Right? What we did was wrong

Brad:

And you're done. There's no need to reminisce about the past. Say we had good times, things like that. You're not doing yourself any favors. In fact, what you're doing is you're leaving the door open that you're open,

Morgan:

And what we're really doing here, what we need to do is we need to break the pattern of secrecy and lies. We take a giant step in the direction of healing and turn towards your spouse because they're really going to help you. And if you are the betrayed spouse, you got to help your spouse feel comfortable. It's hard, it's uncomfortable, it's painful, but it's definitely, I mean, when your spouse is coming and turning and doing the opposite and being honest with you, it's really a step in the right direction and healing will come and the pain will subside over time, you say. Yeah,

Brad:

It'll get better. Thanks for listening to Healing Trust. If you like this episode, you can always get our show notes and more details and links to the resources we discussed@healingbrokentrust.com. Also, as long as you're online, head on over to healing broken trust.com/retreat for details on an upcoming one-on-one retreat with me. If you like us, please subscribe and leave a review for us on iTunes. As always, everything discussed on this podcast is either my opinion or Morgan's opinion. It's not to be taken as relationship advice because I'm not your therapist, nor have I considered your personal situation as your therapist. This podcast is for your entertainment and education only, and I really do hope you've enjoyed it. See you Until next time.

Ep 11: Crisis Management, How to Keep It Together When Everything's Falling Apart After The Affair

Brad:

We can really only focus on one thing at a time. And if we let our thoughts run control of us, it's going to control our mood as well. We're going to be stuck in sadness, grief, and hurt. And it's going to be sure it'll always be there until it's completely dealt with. And I'm not saying don't deal with it. I'm just saying at times you got to get to work or times you got to take care of the kids. And these are ways to regain control of yourself.

Morgan:

You are listening to Healing Broken Trust podcast with Brad and Morgan Robinson, where we talk about healing from affairs, infidelity, trust, and cheating in your relationship from the perspective of a professional marriage therapist and a fair recovery expert. If you are wanting to heal your marriage, this podcast is for you. And we're on episode 11 where we're talking about ways to manage the crisis and specifically with this question of how do I keep my world from falling apart after the affair? So that's really important. And quickly, before we move on, I want to remind you to go to healing broken trust.com/episode 11. That's episode and the number 11 to really get the downloads, actually to get the free downloads that we have there for you and gain a better perspective on how to work through this process. All right, so that's Healing Broken trust.com/episode 11. Download those free resources and let's get started. Welcome back. You're listening to Brad and Morgan Robinson, and we are talking about how to recover from an affair. Today we're talking about ways to help you manage the crisis after your spouse's affair, and there's four things we're talking about today, intrusive thoughts, thoughts stopping journaling, and managing depression. Brad, do you want to get us started?

Brad:

Yeah. Many times after an affairs discovered, obviously it's very traumatic, it's very hurtful. Part of, and we've talked about before, this is very, because it is so traumatic, you have a difficult time with obsessive thoughts. And so how you handle those intrusive thoughts, those obsessive thoughts, I want to share a couple things with our listeners on how to do that. Pretty much in almost every case I've worked with on a fair recovery. The spouse or partner who's been betrayed has had obsessive intrusive thoughts. Most of them have also reported a hard time managing the flood of thoughts that came to them. There is a guy named Larry Smith. He's an author and leading the expert on post-traumatic stress disorder and other anxiety disorders. He's developed a few tools to help individuals deal with intrusive thoughts instead of having to turn to drugs or other harmful coping mechanisms to relieve that pain. And one of the things that he's developed is really grounding your body.

Brad:

And

Brad:

Let me explain this, grounding yourself and grounding your body. Grounding yourself means doing things that bring you back to the present. Instead of focusing on the past and letting your mind into the affair, you're focused on the here and now, you're learning and practicing. This will help you gain a sense of control over intrusive thoughts from the past. And it frees you from worrying about the affair happening again. And there are multiple ways to do this, and one of those is grounding your body with grounding your body. You're noticing what your body is doing without passing judgment on what your body feels like. So for example, if your breathing is shallow and rapid, or if your stomach is in knot, you focus on the breathing slowly and evenly, especially if you are hyperventilating.

Brad:

You

Brad:

Want to touch the fabric of your clothes or an object close to you and focus on what it feels like. Part of grounding your body is to stomp your feet or push them down, or you could rub your elbow or wiggle your toes. Tensing and releasing different muscle groups is another effective way to ground your body.

Brad:

And

Brad:

So you're getting more in touch with what's happening. You're not passing judgment on it, and you're paying attention to it,

Morgan:

And

Brad:

It actually helps you feel better,

Morgan:

Right? Because oftentimes you can drift, your mind can wander, and you can feel your body getting tense and tightening up. But if you say, oh, I'm going there again, and you start to come to the present moment and feel your body in the now, then you're starting to slow your breathing and you're starting to really relax, and it's going to take you away from the stress and those intrusive thoughts. Is that the idea?

Brad:

That's the idea. And that will help with the intrusive

Morgan:

Thoughts.

Brad:

Another way to help with the intrusive thoughts is, and I know what I just said, on grounding yourself, grounding your body. That sounds bizarre. Try it. Just try it and see and do it for a little bit and see what kind of results you get.

Morgan:

And if you feel awkward doing it on your own, maybe go to a yoga class or a breathing class and just practice relaxing. Maybe even get a CD with relaxing music

Brad:

On how to relax, and that'll be very helpful.

Morgan:

Very helpful.

Brad:

Another way to handle intrusive thoughts is what's called thought stopping.

And with this, what you do is you just tell yourself, stop it. I'm not going to think about this. Stop again. This will be probably difficult in the beginning, the immediate aftermath because you're still very much a crisis. But as time goes on and as you get better, you can start choosing what your thoughts are going to be with thought stopping. You want to basically tell yourself, stop it. Then select half predetermined thoughts that you're already going to choose. You can have scripture verses on a note card. You can have lines of poetry. You can have your goals written down. You can have affirmations written down. You want to have something predetermined that is going to make you feel better and that you can say to yourself, instead of having these wild thoughts control your mind, you can just say these things out loud to yourself. And it can be a prayer that's written down or a prayer book that you have, and you can just read it out loud and it'll help you start controlling your thoughts and regain mastery over 'em. And it's not controlling you.

Morgan:

Right. And it's helpful to say it out loud as well. Very helpful. Say, Nope, stop. I'm not going to, Nope. I'm not going to think of that. Stop now and think on the things you want.

Brad:

Yeah, because we can really only focus on one thing at a time, and if we let our thoughts run control of us, it's going to control our mood as well. We're going to be stuck in sadness, grief, and hurt. And it's going to be sure it'll always be there until it's completely dealt with. And I'm not saying don't deal with it. I'm just saying at times, you got to go to work or times you got to take care of the kids. And these are ways to regain control of yourself.

Morgan:

Yes.

Brad:

And so thought stomping is very helpful. Handling those intrusive thoughts with the grounding yourself and grounding your body, that's also helpful.

Morgan:

Right.

Brad:

And another helpful way, Morgan, do you want to share that with us? Sure.

Morgan:

Yes.

Brad:

This is

Morgan:

Journaling. Journaling. Journaling is very helpful. I personally enjoy journaling, but there's a social psychologist, Dr. James Pennebaker's, and he did research that identified two traits of individuals who cope well along the journey to recovery, an outlet for their feelings and a mindset about the trauma that fosters closure and clarity. So he talks about that, and he believes journaling can help with that. Dr. Pennebaker found that those who confided their emotional wounds in writing experienced dips in their mood as they were writing, but ultimately felt significantly happier and less anxious than the students who did not spend time journaling.

Brad:

And he did a study with one of his classes and he had his students do that.

Morgan:

Oh, true. Yes, yes. So journaling reportedly gave the students and the people that he worked with increased clarity about their trauma and brought them to a place where they could think about it more easily. And the exercise also improved function and participant's immune systems, which is amazing. Dr. Pennebaker concluded that confiding helps individuals confront, understand, and mentally organize the trauma, lessening its damaging effects. So that's pretty amazing. And I think if you're putting those feelings and thoughts onto paper, it's almost taking it off your shoulders. And I could imagine that would help your immune system.

Brad:

It really does. It's

Morgan:

Amazing.

Brad:

And Morgan, there's some different ways that journaling can become more effective. When you do begin to journal,

Brad:

You

Brad:

Really want to remove distractions. It's important to locate a fairly secluded space where your focus won't be impeded by people noises or other distracting stimuli.

Morgan:

And you want to be consistent. Consistent is consistency is very important. And I remember Dr. Pennebaker recommends journaling for 15 to 30 minutes on four to five consecutive days.

Brad:

And that's really important. And just being consistent with it because it'll help you. Sure, you might feel a little worse when you're riding, but when you're going to feel better because you're dealing with it, you're not putting the pain away, you're not putting the trauma away,

Morgan:

You're stuffing, you're not stuffing it. Yeah,

Brad:

You're not stuffing it. Sometimes moving past this is like hugging a cactus. I tell people, you go out and lost in the desert and you've got a terrible sunburn on you and you're dehydrated and you meet a person that lives in the desert, and this person is not wearing very much clothes. They look like they, they're also skin burned, but it's not destroying them. It's not peeling, it's not painful. And they told you how they got better. They said, see that cactus over there? I went over there and hugged it. I helped my skin, it healed my skin, and I no longer felt dehydrated, and I can survive in this desert. And in a way, that's what this is like. We're hugging a cactus when we're journaling, when we're dealing with the affair, when we're talking about it with our spouse is it feels horrible when we're doing it. And you got to squeeze that cactus tight. You got to wrap your arms around it, and you got to bear hug it, and it's penetrates your skin and it's already sunburned and you're dehydrated. But when you're doing that, it has healing energy and has healing properties to it.

And that's what we're doing. And lo and behold, you get better. You start feeling better. And that's what fair recovery is in a lot of ways. You're hugging a cactus,

Morgan:

And I really like the next thing. Inspiration, beginning with the traumatic event can spur the flow of writing as long as it's not a topic that's so upsetting that it becomes a distraction. Sometimes you can use a journal that has topics to write on. I'm sure there are a lot of helpful journals out there.

Brad:

And Morgan, that brings up the idea of being honest. This is your journal. It's a wonderful outlet to address topics you often think about but are too uncomfortable to admit to yourself or too embarrassed to discuss out loud writing can sometimes help you make sense of your feelings and therefore deal with your trauma in a way that conversation or internalizing simply cannot do.

And you're writing for yourself. And so it's important that this is also very private. It's important to write with no one's thoughts, opinions, or approval in mind, but your own in order to ensure total honesty. And some of this, because there is heightened emotion there when you're writing about something as difficult and painful as an affair is, even though you may feel strong emotion for a short period after journaling, most people do report having felt a sense of relief and peace as the long-term effects of journaling. Most people report feeling sense of peace as the long-term effect of journaling.

Morgan:

Right? And so having a clean slate, this is a valuable opportunity to cleanse your mind of worries. And many have experienced relief from insomnia by journaling before they go to sleep, which is really nice. Kind of gets all those crowded thoughts off your head, off your plate. However, journaling can sometimes trigger painful thoughts like you're talking about, and reminders. So it's important to use discretion and feel free to stop journaling at any time if it becomes too difficult. Just

Brad:

That's important.

Morgan:

Keep in touch with yourself.

Brad:

Yeah, that's important. You don't want to squeeze that cactus too strong, but it's still going to help you capitalizing. It's important to supplement journaling with therapy. It does not replace the value, the valuable help of a trained professional counselor.

Morgan:

Right? That's important.

Brad:

Yeah. It's not a supplement supplements. It's not a replacement. And another thing you need to do with this is take action. If journaling has helped you identify an unhealthy influence or pattern in your life, take steps to confront this issue in a healthy, productive way to incite positive change in your life.

Morgan:

And that's one thing that a counselor can do as well, help you to take those steps and to iron out what to do next. And another is finding closure. Journaling is an excellent way to close a chapter of the past and move forward with peace and clarity. Dr. Pennebaker says that as a rule, if a person can express their feelings about the past and see the events in a different light, he or she will mentally rehearse it less often, so it'll be less intrusive.

Brad:

And that's important, Morgan. It does help you find closure. I want to share a story real quick with a couple I've worked with. This is a situation where the wife was betrayed and the husband wanted to leave and she began to journal. And I'm really proud of her because I've seen a lot of people lose her Cool in that type of situation. And she said what helped her not lose her cool was she began to journal. She began to write. Instead of venting to other people and doing all that and trying to get ahold of him, she began to journal. And that really helped her just get this out of her system. So this journaling, it's very valuable.

Morgan:

And something that we've mentioned in the past that some people find very helpful is they might write it down on paper and take it out in the backyard and burn it or dig it in the fireplace and have a, let's get rid of this, these feelings, bonfire

Brad:

And Morgan, that's important. I'm glad you're bringing that up because people when they do journal and you really want to destroy it after you write it and you can destroy it by burning it, tying it to a balloon and watching it float away, that's a

Morgan:

Good one.

Brad:

And there's a psychological effect where it's getting lifted off your shoulders, you're beginning to feel better. And with journaling, you can also write prayers out to God. You can also write that person who's betrayed you a letter. You can write the affair, partner a letter, but don't send those types of letters. I had somebody that one time journaled and she said, those letters you're supposed to write, but not send 'em to anybody while I did.

Morgan:

Oh gosh.

Brad:

And all this, it was really bad because they had, shortly after that, there was a family wedding and this was a family member, and it really kind caused a big stink and a big fuss. You're going to say some things that you need to be very honest about. These are not the type of things that you need to give to somebody or let somebody else see. So after you write it, I think it's best to destroy it. I've also journaled, and I've used this just sometimes with daily stress, and I left it on the kitchen table every time I walked by it in the kitchen table for a week. I was just annoyed. I just saw it and it triggered where I got really annoyed. So if you do this and you really should, you need to destroy it or put it in a place that nobody can find it, and good ways to destroy, it's to burn it, cut it up, flush it down the toilet, or tie it to a balloon and watch it float away. And there's a psychological effect where you're seeing it go and you feel released, and it does help you feel better.

And maybe those feelings will come back, maybe be less intense, keep journaling again. It's going to help you with that. And so that's really important. You need to at least try journaling a few times before you just roll it out completely.

Morgan:

Good points.

Brad:

Morgan, the other topic I want to discuss today, and this is very helpful, is depression. After someone's betrayed, there can be a lot of depression, obviously, and for most people there is significant amounts of depression and also depression can lead to somebody having an affair. Sometimes the betrayer was depressed,

Maybe not major depression, but at least a mild depression. We've seen that quite a lot. Yeah, we have. And here's how depression can play out in your relationship. The depressed partner will typically withdraw out of the relationship because they're depressed. The other person, the non-depressed partner, will feel frustrated and powerless to make a difference. And they will respond usually with frustration and criticism, which makes the depression worse. And depression can feed the negative cycle in that relationship. So if you're depressed, the more critical you become or the more you'll withdraw. And many depressed people want to change their surroundings, and that sometimes means leaving the marriage. And depression is common right before an affair. It's a precursor to an affair. And so people who are depressed tend to be critical and irritable or they're withdrawn and they shut down. And how if you're married to someone who has depression, the most common way that that spouse is described is they're lazy. That's the best description that's given of them.

Morgan:

And sometimes we've heard where people, they sometimes seek an antidote to their depression because their mood is so low and the chemicals are so low. Sometimes an affair can pull them out of that depression for a temporary time.

Brad:

Yeah, exactly. Limerence depressed, you meet somebody, it feels good because

Morgan:

Those chemicals

Brad:

That

Morgan:

Are released in the brain, it kind

Brad:

Of exactly

Morgan:

Takes away the depression for a time. So they become somewhat addicted to it sometimes.

Brad:

Yeah, exactly. There's also, now, if you're depressed or if your spouse is depressed, you need to know that being critical and judgmental makes it harder for your spouse or partner to recover. And 50 to 70% of all mothers suffer from postpartum depression. Wow, that's a high number there. Yeah. That's really high depression. It disrupts sleep and sexual desire. And many times conflict is simply caused because one of the spouses is depressed, they're critical, they're irritable or they're withdrawn. And so also there are, when someone is depressed, they have a hard time expressing their needs. They have a hard time accepting anything

Morgan:

From

Brad:

Their partner, and that's really important.

Morgan:

That is right. And so kind of the symptoms of depression, a few of them are difficulty concentrating, remembering details and making decisions. Persistent sadness, anxiety or feelings of emptiness, persistent aches or pains, headaches, cramps or digestive problems that just don't ease with treatment. Fatigue and decreased energy, feelings of guilt, worthlessness or helplessness, feelings of hopelessness and or pessimism. Sometimes people say they have insomnia or early morning wakefulness or issues with excessive sleeping. There's irritability and restlessness like you had talked about, loss of interest in activities or hobbies once pleasurable, including sex overeating and appetite loss. And of course, we're not diagnosing anyone. These are just some symptoms that people who are depressed, they do experience.

Brad:

And if you're depressed, obviously getting help for that is really important. And it's important to remember that depression is common. If you have it, you're not weak, you're human, and it's treatable.

Morgan:

There's different types of depression, so there are some that need medication and some that Some are just situational, right?

Brad:

Yeah. And exactly. And part of this is getting help. Depression is common, is treatable. Here's some things that you can do that may be helpful. One of those is professional help. If you're depressed and it's causing you to have an affair, you may need professional help. If you're also depressed after your partner's affair and that depression isn't lifting, you may need professional

Brad:

Help.

Brad:

And so here's some things that you can do. One of those is just taking a warm bath. Warm water helps with depression.

Morgan:

Interesting.

Brad:

That's important.

Morgan:

Yeah.

Brad:

Physical activity. You need to get moving. You need to go to the gym, even going with your spouse or a friend going, walking. But physical activity will help with depression, and that's huge.

Morgan:

We talked about journaling as well,

Brad:

Right? Yeah. Journaling will help with depression and finding ways of connecting with your spouse. If you can do that around physical activity, that's great. If your spouse is too depressed and they don't want to walk with you, give them the room to have that ability to say, no, I don't want to walk right now.

Morgan:

And don't believe that always. It's personal. Depression is not really personal typically.

Brad:

And that's what people typically, they feel like, gosh, why are you upset? Why are you this way? I can't shake you out of this many times. What

Morgan:

Did I do wrong?

Brad:

Yeah, what did I do wrong? Cause you always blah, blah, blah. You always acted this way. And the non-depressed spouse will feel like it's personal when really it's not. They're really stuck in a very depressive state. And so what's really neat is how getting a pet can help people who are depressed feel better. Many times people who are depressed connect better with animals and with people. So getting a pet is helpful.

Morgan:

Interesting. Yeah. Accepting appreciation and giving appreciation back to your spouse. This can be hard. You need to practice small things. Often express appreciation after appreciation at least one time a day or the first week. So expressing appreciation.

Brad:

Appreciation is important.

Morgan:

It's very helpful

Brad:

Because if you're depressed, you're typically critical of yourself and you have negative thoughts. And so hearing somebody else appreciate you, it's really important. Another thing is just check in with each other. Ask how each other's days are going. Discuss how events are going. Listen, don't judge. Don't try to give advice and fix. Just listen. And also, Morgan, I like what you said about appreciating, but another thing is encourage your spouse to have dreams and to follow them. Encourage them to have goals. And because depressed spouses typically don't feel like they're entitled to have any dreams, depressed, people often don't feel like they can voice their dreams because they don't feel like they deserve to have any dreams.

Morgan:

Gosh.

Brad:

And so encourage your spouse to follow their dreams and to have 'em and have fun together. You need to go out and have fun together. You're trying to go on it and have a good time. Don't be cranky and mean. Don't run the mood.

Morgan:

Try not to at

Brad:

Least. But yeah, go out and have fun together. That's really important.

Morgan:

Get around friends and family are supportive and connect with them. Getting around anyone will help you. You can't be isolated. It just adds to the depression.

Brad:

And Morgan, that's really good advice because most of the time depression follows a feeling of loss and isolation. So if you can get around people that'll help.

Morgan:

And it's a deep introspection that is negative.

Brad:

Exactly.

Morgan:

So set priorities and simplify tasks to reduce the stress, make it simple and just make time for activities you enjoy. Get about eight hours of sleep a night, so enough sleep can help, but don't get too much sleep. Try to get out of bed, eat more healthy foods and take vitamin D. That can be very helpful.

Brad:

Yeah, Morgan, you're right about that. With getting eight hours of sleep a night, this is really interesting. The lack of sleep is the basis of all mood disorders.

Morgan:

Interesting.

Brad:

And they did some studies on this. If you go 30 days without eight hours every night, if you go 30 days without eight hours of sleep every night, that could trigger major depression. And they've done studies on this where if you don't have any stimulants like energy drinks or caffeine and you got six hours of sleep for 30 days, most people would be very depressed. But of course in our culture, we're taking caffeine and stimulants and coffee and different things like that, energy drinks. So we're not seeing, we may not have that quite that impact, but if you didn't have any of that, you would be. And so it's really important just to take that, to get enough sleep. 60 minutes did a special some years ago, or they did a topic on lack of sleep, a show on lack of sleep. And what they discovered was, what they reported was if you go six days without eight hours of sleep, if you get six hours of sleep or seven hours, you're in a pre-diabetic state. That's right. If you only go a week, and they did lab rats where if they didn't get sleep for a week, it killed them.

Morgan:

So

Brad:

Sleep is really important to our health. We don't know a whole lot about it, but we do know that the basis of mood disorders is really a lack of sleep. And so getting enough sleep is really important.

Morgan:

So don't medicate yourself with caffeine. That's a big problem.

Brad:

And getting enough sleep and really eating, like you mentioned, healthy foods, fruits, vegetables, whole grains, taking vitamin E, like you said,

Morgan:

They talk about St. John's wart as well for depression. That's very helpful.

Brad:

Fish oil, St. John's Wart, those are some things. If medication isn't something you want to do, those are natural alternatives. And again, set goals for yourself. Someone once said, happiness is the pursuit of a goal moving forward, having something that you're working towards, it creates those positive endorphins. You're feeling happy working towards a goal, and again, get professional help

Morgan:

And having a secure base with one that you love, your spouse really helps. If you guys can work together, you can really defeat depression. There's a lot that you can do.

Brad:

And Morgan, let me say this, we're out of time, but let me say this. One of the most important things that you can do with depression is to get treatment. Part of what we're talking about is overcoming trauma. I heard this from someone, I can't give our listeners who said this, but they were talking about how effective treating trauma is. They said it's 10 times more effective if you go to individual therapy than if you just take medication for it.

Morgan:

Interesting.

Brad:

And so get individual help. If you have it, it's not going to go away on its own. You're not weak. Everybody has dealt with it at some point in their life. It's understandable that you're going to have depression after an affair, get help for it.

Morgan:

And couples counseling is also very helpful for relieving depression,

Brad:

Of course. And in fact, that's one of the best ways to relieve depression

Morgan:

Because how much better would it be to have your spouse there hearing where you're coming from, hearing what's happening for you, so that when you leave the counselor's office, you have someone there to work it out with you to be there as a support system. It's huge. In some ways, it can be just as helpful, if not more helpful than individual counseling because you do have a partner there to work through with you.

Brad:

Yeah, exactly. Thanks for listening to Healing Broken Trust. If you like this episode, you can always get our show notes and more details and links to the resources we discussed at healingbrokentrust.com. Also, as long as you're online, head on over to healing Broken trust.com/retreat for details on an upcoming one-on-one retreat with me. If you like us, please subscribe and leave a review for us on iTunes. As always, everything discussed on this podcast is either my opinion or Morgan's opinion and is not to be taken as relationship advice. I'm not your therapist, nor have I considered your personal situation as your therapist. This podcast is for your entertainment and education only, and I really do hope you've enjoyed it. See you Until next time.

Ep 12: Should I Stay Or Go? What To Do When You're Not Sure You Want To Save The Relationship. The One Thing Holding You Back From Progress.

Brad:

How will the children suffer from a breakup of your marriage?

Morgan:

Yeah, those

Brad:

Are good because it would be a disaster scenario. And I'm a product of a broken home. My father cheated on my mother and they were divorced. It was a disaster after that. And so you need to think about the kids as well.

Morgan:

You are listening to Healing Broken Trust podcast with Brad and Morgan Robinson, where we talk about healing from affairs and fidelity trust and cheating in your relationship from the perspective of a professional marriage therapist and a fair recovery expert. If you're wanting to heal your marriage, this podcast is for you. And we're officially on episode number 12 and we're talking about should I stay or should I go? And that's a really important question because people really struggle with that. Should I stay? Should I go, should I work on this? Should I not? Is it going to work? Can we fix this? So we're going to talk about this in episode 12, and I want to encourage you to go over to healing broken trust.com/episode 12. That's Healing broken trust.com/episode and the number 12, and download those free resources so that you can get some help. Really, we want to help you through this process and it's a great way to expedite healing and to help you through this process. So go to healing broken trust.com/episode 12. And let's get started.

Brad:

You're listening to How to Recover From An Affair with Brad and Morgan Robinson. I'm Brad Robinson.

Morgan:

And I'm Morgan Robinson. And today we're talking about handling the ambiguous feelings and questions about staying or leaving after infidelity in the relationship. This is a very important topic and basically the emotional storm that occurs after betrayed spouses find out about the affair causes a very intense emotional disorientation. And we strongly recommend that couples wait six to 12 weeks after discovering the affair before they decide that they're completely done with their mate. One of the common feelings after learning about an affair is shock. After that period, reality begins to set in allowing plenty of time to make the decision, ensures that the decision will be easier to live with. Right, Brad?

Brad:

Yeah, and Morgan, that's why we asked for couples and individuals who've been affected by this to really give themselves six to 12 weeks before they decide they're done. And Morgan, there's a couple that I've worked with where then they've been married for 20 years. The wife had an emotional affair with a boyfriend that she met from high school. This was somebody that she met on Facebook. And for this couple and almost all couples after an affair, there is this period of questioning if they want to stay married or divorced. And that period can take several days or several months.

Morgan:

Interesting.

Brad:

And it can make it harder to heal when you're stuck in this place of uncertainty. Do I want to be here or not? And that's really important because the longer somebody's uncertain about wanting to stay or heal, it's harder for them to be a supporter and a nurturer for their spouse because they're still stuck on themselves. They haven't made the full commitment recommitment back into the marriage. And so the spouse who's been betrayed is really wavering

Morgan:

Right back and forth. And during this time, emotions are all over the map. They're emotions like anger, guilt, disgust, shame, humiliation and fear because emotions are heightened and will eventually subside. Our advice is to not make any major life decisions right now while the ability to think clearly and rationalize as compromised, including the decision to leave. Most people who decide to leave after an affair without trying to work things out first will later, usually later regret not trying to sort through the mess.

Brad:

Yeah.

Morgan:

So both Go ahead.

Brad:

Yeah, you're right, Morgan. Because they regret not trying the effort. It's the what if we could have made it

Morgan:

Right?

Brad:

I'll never know. So I'm in favor of trying to make it work.

Morgan:

Yeah, absolutely. And you have to consider too, if you're not willing to at least heal from what happened, a lot of times you bring that baggage into the next relationship. If you do decide to get remarried again.

Morgan:

Yeah, you

Morgan:

Can. You really don't. If you haven't worked through those problems, you can really cause more problems in the next relationship. But those who do try to work on the marriage and if they later divorce, rarely regret trying to work on the marriage, they don't regret it. A lot of times because of what I just said, you are healing as a person, as an individual, as well as the relationship

Brad:

They find sane and trying to work on the marriage, brought them closure

Morgan:

And

Brad:

Help them have peace of mind about leaving.

Morgan:

Exactly.

Brad:

And so Morgan, my advice to couples is to make the effort to work this out while they have the opportunity instead of facing regret in the future. And several months ago, I had a worked with a couple who'd been married for 10 years. The husband was a high level executive in his company who did a lot of traveling.

Morgan:

His

Brad:

Wife was suspicious, discovered the affair. He initially lied about the affair, blowing it off as just a friend. When they came to see me, they both were debating about whether to continue the marriage or end it. My advice to them is the same advice I'm giving to our listeners. He wanted to try to make it work, and he followed my advice very well, but she felt like she would be better off without him and let him know she didn't want to continue the marriage. That was the last I saw of them. And this is a woman who felt like God was telling her who need to leave him because I'm going to give you a ministry to help other women who've experienced this. Well, how come she couldn't have a ministry? That was one where they reconciled

Morgan:

And there was healing involved

Brad:

And healing and not just, well, I'm going to be done

Morgan:

Because

Brad:

I don't financially need you. So the wife later called her office and said that her husband had left her for the other woman.

Morgan:

Right? I spoke with her that day, I remember,

Brad:

But isn't what happened at all. He wanted to try to fix the marriage and repair it because of the strong emotions associated with this. She decided she was done without really trying to salvage what was left of their marriage. When she called, she was filled with regret because she didn't take the time to make a well-thought out decision that she could live with.

Morgan:

That was a really sad day. I remember that. So like this client, the initial reaction of many people is to say the marriage is over after affair is discovered, but calling it quits, that's a bit premature and shortsighted in a lot of ways, and most people do work it out. But putting effort into saving the marriage and being a loving, supportive partner can really help spouses feel like they gave their marriage the best chance they could. And once they start seeing improvement and feeling like their marriage is moving ahead in a positive way, their commitment will likely increase. So a lot of people just can't see the forest from the trees in the beginning.

Brad:

And Morgan something, and this is really important for those of you listening, when you are discussing the future of the marriage, if you're spending time talking with friends, you want to talk to friends and family who are friends of the marriage. And by that term, I mean people who are pro-marriage are objective, who realize there's two sides to every

Brad:

Story.

Brad:

It's really funny if you listen to somebody, we had this happen recently with us where somebody was talking to, and it's not even about a relationship issue as a couple. It was just somebody, we knew both of them, and they were talking to us about a work situation they were in, and one person was talking to us about it and made the other person sound horrible. And then you hear the other person talk about it, you get more of a well-rounded picture of the whole thing. There's two sides to every story. And you need to talk. If you're going to talk to anybody, you want to talk to people who know that there's two sides to every story who have a well-rounded perspective on things,

Morgan:

And they're pro your relationship and pro-marriage.

Brad:

Yeah. And they want to see you guys work out. And so unfortunately though a few people understand how affairs work and how they occur and how to heal from

Morgan:

One.

Brad:

And so friends and family members can express strong reactions and opinions about what the couple should do with the affair. So they're going to really let you know.

Morgan:

And

Brad:

So those reactions can affect your decision making. But we encourage you to remember that you are the only one who's going to live with the outcome of this decision, and therefore the decision is yours alone.

Morgan:

Exactly. Exactly. And during this six to 12 week period of ambiguity where you're not sure should you stay, should you go, what should you do? Another helpful step is to read as much as you can about affairs and the process. Listen to our recordings and read and learn about how to heal from an affair. You never know what one idea or key piece of information will impact your perspective. So keep that in

Brad:

Mind. That's good advice,

Morgan:

Morgan.

Brad:

Now I want to give our listeners some different questions that they need to work through and ask themselves. And so as you're listening to this, you may want to pull out a pad of paper and a pen. Write these down, think on paper and

Morgan:

Try not to be driving at the moment.

Brad:

And you can re-listen to this over and over again and just try to sort this out. The clearer this is, the better this decision you'll be able to work with and live with. And so here's something that you need to consider and questions you need to ask yourself. You really want to see the future. You want to speculate what the future will be like for you without your spouse. So what will life be like without this person? What's going to happen in the immediate future, five years from now, 10 years from now, 20 years from now without this person in my life? So look down the road as far as you can and speculate what it would be like without your spouse.

Morgan:

How would your life be different?

Brad:

How would your children's lives be different?

Morgan:

How would your current friendships be different?

Brad:

How would you manage family events separately?

Morgan:

How would the following be different for you in the future? How would having fun be different? How would religion or spiritual connections be different? How would activities, interests, or hobbies you share, how would that be different personal goals and dreams? What would change about those? How would those be different?

Brad:

And you also want to look at the past. You don't want to let current emotions keep you from seeing your past objectively. And what can happen is when things are a little bit more negative, 51% negative, people will rewrite their relationship history and see it more negative

Morgan:

Kind of through these negative sunglasses.

Brad:

Yeah, these negative glasses. And so you need to ask yourself, what do you remember about the good times you shared with your partner?

Morgan:

What would you miss about your marriage?

Brad:

What do you value about you and your partner as a couple?

Morgan:

What is your marriage like at its best? And at its worst,

Brad:

What particular qualities of your partner do you value?

Morgan:

What positive qualities does your partner bring out in you?

Brad:

Have you and your spouse struggled together to get to this place in your life?

Morgan:

What are the qualities you don't care for in your partner? And about the marriage? What did you contribute? And what ways did you two work as a team or not work as a team?

Brad:

What negative impact does divorcing have on your spouse? What negative impact does the divorce have on you? What negative impact does divorce have on your family, on your work, on your friends, et cetera,

Morgan:

Right? And putting your hurt aside, trying to set that aside for a moment. What are the reasons for staying with your spouse?

Brad:

Look past the affair. Do you love your spouse? And again, it's normal to not like or even despise the person after they've had an affair,

Morgan:

Right?

Brad:

But do you love your spouse?

Morgan:

Right? At a fundamental level, do you like your spouse as a person, even before the affair? Did you like your spouse? When did you like your spouse the most? Try to reimagine your wedding day. Try to go back to that place when you were really the closest.

Brad:

Are you and your spouse somewhat compatible?

Morgan:

Exactly. And the fourth one, are you willing to work on the marriage? Are you willing to work on it?

Brad:

And are you willing to work towards forgiveness for what may have been done to injure your spouse?

Morgan:

Are you willing to understand what vulnerabilities may have been present for an affair to even happen? Right?

Brad:

Yeah. And Morgan, something that's really important with this is we're talking about compatibility. Do you love them? Many people will say, I love them, but I'm not in love with them. And what you need to understand if that's how you feel is an affair, is a tremendous opportunity for growth. Sure, there's a lot of remorse, pain, shame, chaos, but it's tremendous opportunity for growth. It's that you are working on marriage number two, you are in round two of your marriage.

Morgan:

You're

Brad:

Working on this and you can rebuild it. Marriage number one is dead.

Morgan:

And

Brad:

So you guys have a say in both of you, rebuilding this from the ground up, changing things. And that's important. So it's not like, okay, I don't love this person. Now I got to go back to 'em. Right? You can change how you feel towards this person,

Morgan:

Right? By the choices that you make.

Brad:

You can regain your feelings for them if you are the one who had the affair or if you're the one who's been betrayed. And so that's really important to understand that.

Morgan:

Yeah, don't let temporary and present emotion keep you from working on this because romance can be rebuilt. Questions for the injured spouse to ask. Here's some questions for the injured spouse. The first one is ask yourself whether this affair is part of something larger such as a pattern of lying and cheating in your spouse, right?

Brad:

That's important to look at the larger pattern. What kind of pattern is here

Morgan:

Exactly?

Brad:

Have they cheated before?

Morgan:

Right? Can you trust your spouse to tell you the truth about other things?

Brad:

Can you depend on and trust your spouse for other things?

Morgan:

Exactly.

Brad:

Does your spouse understand your pain from this?

Morgan:

Right? They may not initially be understanding, but feel like you are overreacting possibly. But if they are listening to this and they're listening to what we have to say and they're reading about it, they'll start to understand better the trauma and the emotions surrounding an affair. But is your spouse willing to help you heal and move forward?

Brad:

Is your spouse willing to be part of the solution and moving the marriage forward?

Morgan:

Is your spouse genuinely remorseful for the affair?

Brad:

Is your spouse willing to learn from this and implement what he or she is learning?

Morgan:

And the next one is your spouse willing to acknowledge attractions to the opposite sex as normal and willing to discuss these temptations in the future.

Brad:

That's important.

Morgan:

That's very important. Being honest and open.

Brad:

Is your spouse willing to make a commitment to honesty about everything pertaining to your relationship? Does that even seem reasonable to you, them being completely honest about everything pertaining to the relationship?

Morgan:

And something to think about is that changes like these don't happen overnight, but is there a general movement in this direction? For the previous questions two through eight, are they moving in that direction?

Brad:

If you were to split for good,

Morgan:

Describe

Brad:

The disaster scenario that could follow. How will the children suffer from a breakup of your marriage? Yeah,

Morgan:

Those are pretty

Brad:

Good. It would be a disaster scenario. And I'm a product of a broken home. My father cheated on my mother and they were divorced. It was a disaster after that. And so you'd need to think about the kids as well.

Morgan:

So if you ever wondered why Brad got into this field now, anyways, so we were talking about questions for the injured spouse to ask, and now we've got questions for the involved spouse

Brad:

To ask the spouse who had the affair. These are questions that you need to ask yourself. And when you're deciding if you should stay or go, it's important to understand that you do not want to make a decision because you are comparing an exciting, illicit passionate affair with a stable relationship.

Morgan:

One thing we talk about too is that you can bring that passion and excitement into your marriage. Once it's healed,

Brad:

You can, well, you can create intimacy.

Morgan:

True.

Brad:

It's kind of like comparing, well, do I want, you can't live in Disney World. You just can't. You can go visit it, but you can't live in it. And sometimes that's what people want do is they want to bring Disney World home with them and have their whole world be Disney World. Your whole life be Disney World. And that's what you're doing when you're saying, when you're comparing a normal relationship, your normal marriage, this

Morgan:

To a fantasy

Brad:

To reality to fantasy.

Morgan:

Exactly.

Brad:

You're often fantasy, world fantasy land,

Morgan:

And only 3% of people who do marry their fair partner are able to have a long-term marriage. That's a small percentage.

Brad:

3%. Yeah. It's a very small percentage of people who do marry their affair partner that's able to have a long-term marriage. And the reason for that is, is because they struggle to trust each other. The affair partner won't be able to trust them because you left your

Morgan:

Marriage, you left your marriage. Why not do the, you're

Brad:

Pledging to remain faithful when you showed that person you could not be faithful and you're not going to be able to trust them and you're leaving them because there's these illicit, passionate, romantic feelings that don't last. That's not normal. They

Morgan:

Subside right? In a cornerstone of a relationship, a solid marriage is trust.

Brad:

It's trust. It's dependability. But those feelings are fleeting. They're there to help you attach to a person. They're not there to build a relationship. In fact, most people who do marry never experience that kind of relationship. They experience more of a companionship type relationship. They don't experience this fantasy,

Morgan:

Fairytale, fantasy fairytale type thing. Barbie's dream house.

Brad:

Yeah, they don't experience that.

Morgan:

Exactly.

Brad:

And so basically questions you need to ask if you've had the affair, if you need to stay or go, here's the first question you need to ask. You need to see yourself married or in a long-term relationship with the affair partner, picture yourself, married or in a long-term relationship with this person. And ask yourself, what would the future look like for you as a couple, 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now

Brad:

Without,

Brad:

And you need to look at this Morgan, without the feelings being there, the passionate feelings, they're not going to be there. What other characteristics does this person have? What negative characteristics do they have?

Morgan:

Right? You're going to have bills, you're going to have mortgage, you're going to have children, possibly. You're going to have all of those stressors. What would that be like?

Brad:

Morgan, and I want to emphasize this because typically people do not look at the negative in a person when they're having an exciting, illicit passionate affair.

Brad:

Secret right

Brad:

Affair. When they're obsessed with a person, they're not looking at their negative qualities.

Morgan:

Exactly.

Brad:

They're not even conscious of them.

Morgan:

So the next question would be, does he or she want to have children if he or she already has children, does he or she want to start a new family in the future? Do your life dreams add up? Do they match up what you want? Do they want,

Brad:

Yeah. Do they want children?

Morgan:

That's one.

Brad:

How difficult would it be for you and your fair partner to raise each other's kids together?

Morgan:

Right. Blended families. They have their own challenges. They do. How would your children handle and incorporate into their family the person who broke up their family? That's interesting.

Brad:

Yeah. You need to consider how that's going to impact. So how would your children handle and incorporate?

Morgan:

Could they respect that person, that

Brad:

Person as a stepparent?

Morgan:

Exactly.

Brad:

That's going to be, yeah. And we've known people like that personally outside of counseling who've experienced that. So what were the things that you found attractive about the affair partner? If these traits were to become magnified, would you still find them desirable? For example, if how your fair partner is always social butterfly, imagine what it would be like to be with someone who was always flirting.

Morgan:

Exactly. Exactly. So

Brad:

You need to ask yourself, would these qualities be magnified that you like? And you need to also look at their negative qualities and ask yourself, what if these became magnified?

Morgan:

Right. Considering living with that.

Brad:

Yeah, because it will, like we mentioned earlier, Morgan, like you said earlier, you wear these glasses of romantic love, of obsessive love where you feel addicted to this person, infatuated with this person. You don't see their negative qualities, their average qualities are even heightened, and all you see is this good stuff. So

Morgan:

Right. And the second one that we want to talk about is what will it be like when the fantasy or infatuation of an illicit affair week wears off 10 years from now? What would it be like after that? Like you're saying, magnifying these common traits that you are seeing as positive Now, how could they be switched or flipped?

Brad:

Would you divorce your spouse even if the relationship with the affair partner doesn't work out?

Morgan:

Think about the future 10 to 20 years from now. Where do you want to be living? How do you want to spend your time? What activities give you pleasure? What makes you happy right now in the past? And how would that affect your future?

Brad:

What happens to the dreams of growing old together with your spouse? What did you plan on you two doing during that time?

Morgan:

What

Brad:

Did you plan on this retirement period? What happened to those dreams that you had with your spouse?

Morgan:

If you were to end your marriage for good, describe the disaster scenario that could follow. What would it look like with your kids, with your feelings, with your finances? What would happen? What would it look like?

Brad:

And you also need to give yourself an honest assessment of how the children would suffer from the disillusion of your marriage. And Morgan, I just want to state in my opinion about this, I would never leave my spouse to be with a fair partner.

Morgan:

Thank you. I really appreciate that.

Brad:

Well, not just you, but I'm saying for our listeners, knowing what I know, if I were in that situation, I would never leave to go be with that other person because it doesn't work. The people I've worked with who've met because of an affair, they're the hardest couples to work with. They don't trust each other. It's like constant fighting and bickering. It's very difficult. They don't have the fundamental foundation of security and trust that you need to have to make a relationship grow.

Brad:

Exactly.

Brad:

They're lacking it, and they don't last long. They just don't. And they're a pain in the butt to work with.

Morgan:

They built their house on sand.

Brad:

And so what you need to know is, and this is something else people need to realize, Morgan, is that being securely connected with your mate, it's the best protection and form of healing after an affair.

Morgan:

Absolutely. Research shows that,

Brad:

Yeah, that's from research, but so being connected emotionally, it helps you heal from an affair and it can help you being connected and emotionally even during this UNC times of uncertainty can help you heal. And if your spouse is leaning out of the marriage, you may want to listen to what we did on the show that we did on how to manage that time. If your spouse is wanting to leave, things that you need to be aware of and things that you can do to help that help stop

Brad:

Your divorce.

Brad:

Yeah, and let me say this though too. People who get caught up in the liran affair, which we've talked about as well, they can complicate how the betrayer feels about ending the affair. Obviously this can make it a difficult period of uncertainty about the future of the marriage. So go look at our information on RIN and RIN Affairs because that can also affect your ability to recover from an affair

Morgan:

And to look at things objectively,

Brad:

Look at things objectively and know if you want to stay or go. And many times, the betrayer, if they're caught up in Limerence, they're very stuck in determining if they want to stay or go

Morgan:

More so than any other type of affair.

Brad:

Yeah, they're very wishy-washy. I don't know if I want to be here. I don't know if I want to stay or go. Sometimes they'll leave. They'll come back. And so you need to look at our information that we've developed on Lime limerence and Limerent Affairs.

Morgan:

Yep. Absolutely.

Brad:

Thank you for listening to How to Recover from an Affair. I'm Brad Robinson.

Morgan:

And I'm Morgan Robinson. You have a wonderful week.

Brad:

Thank you. Take care. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Healing Broken Trust. If you like this episode, you can always get our show notes and more details and links to the resources we discussed at healingbrokentrust.com. Also, as long as you're online, head on over to healing broken trust.com/retreat for details on an upcoming one-on-one retreat with me. If you like us, please subscribe and leave a review for us on iTunes. As always, everything discussed on this podcast is either my opinion or Morgan's opinion and is not to be taken as relationship advice because I'm not your therapist, nor have I considered your personal situation as your therapist. This podcast is for your entertainment and education only, and I really do hope you've enjoyed it. See you Until next time.