Ep 3: Why Do We Fight or Avoid Talking About The Affair?
In the negative cycle we each play a part in perpetuating and maintaining it. When we encounter our feelings the action tendencies we decide to take are how we maintain the cycle. So when I said that we feel hurt (primary), so we show anger (secondary), then we DO SOMETHING to try and take care of it, solve it, and bring ourselves and our relationship back to homeostasis. This is the part we play. There are four types of interactions within the cycle or four ‘parts’.
Ep 11: Crisis Management, How to Keep It Together When Everything's Falling Apart After The Affair
Ep 15: Am I crazy? What’s wrong with me? How come I can't get over this? What to do in the first 90 days
Ep 16: How to work through anger and talk about the affair without pushing each other away?
Ep 37: Your Approach Is Failing
Transcript:
Morgan:
Hey, let's get away to a beautiful location for a destination retreat that will transform your relationship. This opportunity is unlike anything you've done before. Two days with Brad will give your relationship the boost it needs. Then enjoy the beautiful scenery. Go to HealingBrokenTrust.com for more information. Do it soon because time is limited.
Brad:
You're not a failure, your spouse isn't a failure. Your approach is failing you, the strategy you're using is failing you. You may have been to therapists, you may have gone to counseling. You may have done different things on your own to try to heal, but it's really the strategy or the approach that you're taking, that's what's failing you.
Morgan:
Welcome to today's show. I'm Morgan Robinson here with Brad, my husband.
Brad:
Hey guys.
Morgan:
We are excited to bring this week's show to you. First we want to say thank you so much for making us the number one podcast for affair recovery. It is our pleasure to be here and to bring this information to you. Today we're talking about are you stuck? If you're stuck in the process of healing from infidelity, there's a simple concept that we're going to talk about today, and really we're going to break it down into seven points.
Morgan:
There's different things that people do, ways that they approach the healing process that really does not serve them well. We want to point these out so that you can avoid them, so that you don't fall into the pitfalls and the pothole along the way, or whatever. Brad, you want to start us off?
Brad:
Thank you, Morgan. I just want to say, sometimes when couples get stuck in this affair recovery process, they often feel like, "Man, we're not any good together. We suck. Gosh, you suck."
Morgan:
Counseling isn't working or whatever you're trying to do.
Brad:
Yeah, whatever you're trying to do. Really, this is just a simple concept, and we're going to show it in seven areas that is probably the most common, or very common areas that people fall behind in this. To be honest with you it's really, you're not a failure, your spouse isn't a failure, your approach is failing you.
Brad:
The strategy you're using is failing, and so you may have been to therapists, you may have gone to counseling, you may have done different things on your own to try to heal, but it's really the strategy or the approach that you're taking, that's what's failing you, it's not that you are a failure or that your spouse is a failure.
Brad:
You may disagree with me on that, that your spouse isn't a failure, but I don't think they are. I just think the strategy or the approach that they're trying to take is failing you guys. If you're getting stuck in this process and you're not really finding healing, you're not really moving forward, it's probably the approach or strategy that you're taking, it's not really you.
Brad:
I'm certain that you're very successful in a lot of areas of your life, but it's just the approach that you're taking in this, in this crisis. Right now the building is on fire or the smoke alarms are going off. The wrong strategy is to say, "You know what? I got some time. I'll just wait, and I bet it's a false alarm" or "I don't need to start walking out of the building and getting to safety." That's a wrong strategy, that's a wrong approach.
Brad:
You're not a failure, just you've been using the wrong strategy and the wrong approach. These are areas where people tend to have the wrong strategy in.
Morgan:
Okay.
Brad:
I heard this from a client and it's really funny. They gave me this name, and so I'm using their words. If they're listening, they're going to know who they are, but it's kind of smiling as I say it. Trickle down info, trickle truth is what he called it. If you have trickle truth, this is where you're basically not really coming forward with the truth, the honesty that the injured partner needs to be able to heal. That's a strategy that's going to fail you.
Brad:
Because people, they need the truth, they need the truth. They don't give it up. They don't just say, "Okay, I guess I'm not going to get it." They continue to feel like they're being lied to, they continue to be hyper vigilant, they continue to really struggle, and so they need that truth.
Brad:
Just get it over with, just bring it all out. Just dump it out there. Then you can get on with more of the healing journey and really the main parts of the healing journey. Because the truth part is a big component, but it's not probably even the main component, Morgan, to be honest with you. It's a part of it, but it's almost like playing the game Monopoly. It's part of the game that allows you to pass go and you get $200 every time you pass go, but that's not how you win Monopoly. It's not who passes go more. There's other strategies that help you win Monopoly.
Brad:
Part of the affair recovery process is you do need the truth though. Don't get me wrong. If your spouse needs the truth, if they feel like they're not getting the full story from you, they're going to need that to be able to let it go and heal because they need to see you as trustworthy, but there's so much more to the healing process than just that stage. That's one area where people take the wrong approach.
Morgan:
Absolutely. If you think that just withholding parts of the information is actually going to help your relationship, we've talked about this before, it's not. It's not going to do what you think it will, it's not going to help.
Brad:
It's always been a crash and burn scenario, always.
Morgan:
Always, absolutely. Let's go on to the second point. I hear this often when I talk to people over the phone. They assume that their partner needs to go fix themselves, or they need to go learn why they did it before they can join them in counseling. They're saying "Hey, you go fix yourself. You go visit the marriage counselor by yourself or you go to individual therapy, and maybe I'll join you later, because you need to figure out why you did it. You need to figure out what's wrong with you," or whatever their thought process is, "Before I'll come with you."
Morgan:
That's really just a false strategy. It's not a strategy that helps. It's not a strategy that actually really gets you answers. One thing I tell people, and this is very true. Let's say your spouse ... Yes, there are situations where they do need individual therapy, I'm not saying that, but I'm saying if they go to therapy, if they go see the marriage counselor by themselves to understand why they did it, and they figure out why they did it, it doesn't fix the communication problem in the relationship, and it doesn't help them come back to you and explain to you why they did it. Because number one, you're still traumatized.
Brad:
Morgan, part of it is, is many times people will have an affair because they felt rejected first or unwanted first, and this is barring cases of sex addiction, where somebody felt unwanted first or undesired by their spouse. They got caught in a negative cycle. The answer they came up with may be, "I wasn't happy with you. You hurt me."
Brad:
Most of the time, you're really going to be benefited by working with an expert to help you work through the affair recovery process. There might be limited circumstances where it's a good idea to go figure it out on your own, and go get individual treatment, but really both of you need to be getting help in your marriage.
Morgan:
Right. Really, before you self-diagnosis, because I think that's the biggest thing. You self-diagnose, and you think, "Well, this is my answer. This is what our problem really is." You need to let the professional do that first. Let them know what you think is going on so that they can get a really good full picture of both sides so then they can say, "Yeah, that's the case" or "No, let's do this." Make sure you don't self-diagnose and assume that somebody needs to go by them self first, because that's really going to shoot you in the foot.
Morgan:
Okay, ready for the third one?
Brad:
The third one we have here is really minimizing your partner's feelings. Thinking that they should be able just to stuff what they've experienced and be able to just, so both of you can go on your merry way and be happy with each other. "You've got to stuff this pain and trauma that I caused you so that I can be happy again." That's pretty selfish.
Morgan:
Yeah, and I don't think that people consciously, always consciously do that, but they'll do it in certain ways, and I'm sure you'll explain.
Brad:
Yeah. People feel like, "Hey, stuff this, bottle this. I hurt you in this way. I'm stuffing my pain so we can be together." That's the strategy that's destined to fail because what's not happening there, you're not taking on your spouse's emotional needs. Your spouse is not seeing you as a safe person who cares about them and their pain.
Brad:
They're just saying, "Hurry the heck up. Let's get this process over with. Let's enjoy life. I'm tired of trying to answer your questions. I'm tired of you getting triggered. I'm tired of you asking about the affair partner. Let's just go on." An approach that really fails is minimizing your partner's feelings.
Morgan:
Downplaying it.
Brad:
Downplaying it. You really have to take on their emotional needs. You got to work to be a safe person for each other. That goes both ways, but you really got to work to be safe for each other emotionally. Morgan, that leads us to the next one.
Morgan:
Yean, and sometimes people will say, "Oh, I got it, I know, I hurt you. I got it, I know, I hurt you." That's really still that minimizing and downplaying.
Morgan:
Anyways, let's go on to number four. Time will heal all wounds. The strategy that really just doesn't work. Time will not heal the wounds. It might minimize some of the trauma for a time but it's not going to make the trauma go away. We find a lot of people that are just not able to be vulnerable with each other anymore. They're not able to let each other in because there's this lack of trust that's always going to be there if you don't deal with it. Do you have anything to add?
Brad:
Yeah. What I would add to that is time doesn't heal squat. What really helps people heal is really being able to heal in each other's arms. Just thinking, "We're going to drop this, we're going to bury it, and we're going to go on." Usually what happens when people take the time heals all wounds approach is numbness sets in, and emotional distance sets in.
Brad:
People really get to a point of feeling, "I might be better off just on my own. They hurt me in this really dreadful way." It's not the one who had the affair who thinks about leaving, it's the one who got betrayed because it's like, "This is it? This is the makeup? This is the honeymoon? This is how things are going to be? I'm over here traumatized and you don't care."
Morgan:
Right.
Brad:
Time doesn't heal all wounds. Usually the people who have that strategy are people who are not getting help, who are not getting expert help. They're the ones who will adopt that strategy of, "Hey, time heals all wounds, we don't need counseling. Let's just do it on our own. We'll be okay. It's going to be hard, six months, but we'll make it."
Morgan:
That's the same group of people that will minimize.
Brad:
Yeah, yeah. They'll do that as well.
Morgan:
Ready for the next one?
Brad:
Yeah. The next one here is thinking that just getting answers to your questions alone will solve all of the relationship problems. Because really what's underneath the questions that people ask persistently is really, "I'm afraid. Can I trust you? Can I get my needs met with you? Am I safe with you?" Every time you hear your spouse ask a question, and every time that you ask a question, it's really because what you're saying is, "I'm still afraid. I want to know that I can trust you. I want to know that my heart is safe with you."
Brad:
Sometimes our head says, "This is scary," but our heart still loves our spouse. We want them with us, we want them close. Sometimes we think that we have to always get it logically. Sometimes if we approach it in a black or white way ... Obviously, infidelity's always wrong in my book. I don't think there's ever really a circumstance where infidelity is right. If there is, I would be shocked if there's actually a circumstance where it's okay to cheat or have an affair. I don't think there is.
Brad:
When people have an affair and go through that, it's not a black and white thought process for them, it's actually very gray. To try and think that you can understand it through logic alone or understanding alone, you can't. Obviously given the story and details helps but that alone will not help you heal. That will just say, "At least you're trying and you're trustworthy, and I can understand you, and you're more predictable." People sometimes get stuck in this loop of, "I need these questions answered," and that alone doesn't always heal.
Morgan:
Right.
Brad:
There is a point though, because I need to be careful, there's a point where that's really needed in the healing journey, but there becomes a point where that's not really going to ever help somebody heal.
Morgan:
Right, so answering why is not going to be the end all, be all. It's not going to be the thing ...
Brad:
It's important.
Morgan:
It's important but it's not going to be the thing, the only thing that causes you to somehow love your spouse again, trust your spouse again, fully open up to your spouse again. It's not going to be the only thing that leads to complete healing.
Brad:
No.
Morgan:
Let's move on to number six. Not sharing your vulnerable side. Your emotions, your vulnerability, what's really deep inside, what's really going on for you. Not sharing that is a terrible strategy. You'll just land flat on your face every time, but that is so scary for so many people.
Morgan:
Because that vulnerable side is like I mean, "First of all, you've hurt me with this affair. Second of all, before the affair happened, there was this terrible negative cycle, and we were always at each other's throat. I could never really count on you. I could never really get close, for whatever reason. Now you're asking me to be vulnerable? I couldn't be vulnerable before."
Morgan:
This is where therapy's really, really important because you have that safe place. You have that safe person, so that you're not going to be torn to shreds because they're not going to let it happen. You can learn to get to that vulnerable place so that you don't let this happen again. Because that's really, answering why, understanding all the detailed questions, I mean that's very important but it's not going to be the thing that allows that vulnerability to just magically appear.
Morgan:
It's the professional who knows how to help you get there. That's where you're going to start really healing and being able to then get close to your spouse again, and have those bonding events that we've talked about in previous episodes. Brad, do you want to add to that?
Brad:
Yeah. All I would add to that, Morgan, is really that approach of encountering the vulnerable side, sharing your vulnerable side, sharing your deep, primary emotion, sharing the sadness, and the hurt, and the fear, and letting your spouse see that part of you. In these conversations when they encounter that, they encounter somebody who's safe. They encounter somebody that maybe the don't believe always or trust as far as they can throw them, but they're a tad more believable, they're a tad more ...
Morgan:
Safe.
Brad:
Safe. That vulnerability is really the key to healing. Most people, I say most, I really think probably almost everybody really struggles to do that because of these negative cycles that people get caught into. These negative cycles are just really a ...
Morgan:
They're intense.
Brad:
Well, they're intense but it's the pattern we had before the affair, and if it's not addressed we're going to be healing with the pattern that we had before we had the affair.
Morgan:
Ready for the next one?
Brad:
Yeah. This a big one, Morgan. It's thinking that you can do it on your own. Nobody in their right mind who gets diagnosed with cancer is going to think, "Hey, I can do this on my own." They're going to think, "Hey, this is a crisis. My life is falling apart. I'm just going to go do this on my own."
Morgan:
Take supplements.
Brad:
"I'm going to take supplements, eat fruit I like. Just go vegan and that's going to cure my cancer." Not too many people have that kind of ... That's a wrong strategy, that's a wrong approach.
Morgan:
Steve Jobs.
Brad:
Yeah, well the wrong approach is really just thinking you can do it on your own. Part of that is not being in intensive therapy. If you are working through the healing process and you're only doing an hour a week of counseling, that's not really an effective approach. I really discourage it. Sometimes I have that happen for financial reasons but ...
Morgan:
Where people want to do once a week?
Brad:
Yeah, do once a week.
Morgan:
For an hour?
Brad:
Yeah. Once a week for an hour. Then it's like they don't come in every week and then they get escalated and it's like ...
Morgan:
Right, yeah.
Brad:
"Sorry guys it's, you're dealing with some major stuff here."
Morgan:
You have to follow the process.
Brad:
Yeah, but a big part of this is just thinking the financial cost outweigh any benefit of getting help for your marriage. It's like, "Man, this is going to be way more expensive than any benefit that we're going to get out of it."
Brad:
Really, you need to think about, when is the right time to get marriage counseling? If it's not now, then when? Is it when the kids are older and you've been healing with the same pattern that you have now when they leave the house? There's numbness and the one who got betrayed is like, "Screw this. I'm done." When is the right time? If it's not now, then when? If this isn't a time to get marriage counseling and to go see an expert, and to get help, I don't know what is.
Morgan:
Right.
Brad:
If you broke your arm, and you see a bone protruding out of your arm, through the flesh, that's a good time to go to the emergency room.
Morgan:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Brad:
That's not a time to go do it on your own and patch things up.
Morgan:
Exactly.
Brad:
That's one of the biggest mistakes people make. As many couples as I see who've experienced infidelity, there are so many others that never go talk to anybody, never go get help or if they do, it's one and done. It's just one session. They're not getting the help, they're not looking at resources. Obviously you guys are the exception to that. You're listening to this podcast and you're learning and you're growing. Many of you guys have inquired about working with us for retreats, that's an option that we have for you guys. We would love to work with you personally, but you can't hold on to that kind of false belief.
Morgan:
Yeah, exactly. If you'd like to learn more about how you can work with us, you can go to HealingBrokenTrust.com, that's HealingBrokenTrust.com. We have resources there for you, and you can set up your retreat. You're also welcome to call our office, and the phone number is there on the website as well.
Brad:
You're also able to do a coaching call as well.
Morgan:
That's right. If you would like to learn more about it, you can talk to our office or you can schedule a coaching call and learn more about how you can take advantage of the retreat. All right guys, have a great week.
Brad:
Thank you. Bye, bye.