Ep 81 - Surviving the Holidays 10 Strategies After Infidelity

Transcript:

(00:01):

Hi, I am Brad Robinson, and today I'm going to talk with you about 10 things that we can do to be supportive of the betrayed spouse during the holiday season. As you may already know, navigating the holidays after infidelity can be one of the most emotionally charged in vulnerable times for couples. That is especially true for the betrayed spouse. Holidays are often packed with emotional triggers like memories, traditions, family dynamics, social obligations, and on top of all of that, there's this pressure to be joyful, to have your act together, to act like nothing's wrong in your life, that you're perfect for the unfaithful partner. This is a powerful opportunity to show up emotionally, not by fixing everything, but by being present and by being proactively supportive. I want to go over with you today 10 ways that we can navigate infidelity during the holiday season. 

(01:01):

The first is start with a holiday checking conversation. This is something that you want to do before the season starts or before you go to Thanksgiving at a family member's house or before you welcome guests. You want to have a checking conversation before Christmas, before the holidays that you may celebrate, and the conversation may go something like this. The holidays are coming up and I want to make sure we approach them in a way that supports you. Are there things you're worried about that might be triggering? Is there anything you'd like to skip, change or do differently this year? Many betrayed spouses feel like they have to fake their way through traditions that may feel tainted. Asking that and giving that by being proactively supportive, you're giving them permission to rewrite the script on how things should normally go. The second way that we can turn our negative cycles into positive cycles during the holiday season is don't assume, but ask what your mate needs. Do they want you to participate in certain gatherings or not? Are there certain songs, locations, or even people that are triggering, do they want to celebrate as usual or do they want to simplify things or try something new? 

(02:18):

So question that you can ask is, what would help you feel most supported this year? What can I do to make this day and this holiday season what you need it to be? What you're trying to convey is that you're making the betrayed spouse's emotional safety, the priority, not social appearances or expectations. The third thing that you can do to turn our negative cycle into a positive cycle this holiday season is offer reassurance before every event. By reassurance, I mean you're being proactively supportive versus reassurance, which is usually something you give after something bad has happened or after somebody already starts to feel bad. We want to give reassurance because that is being proactively supportive. It's letting our mate know, I'm thinking about you. You're on my mind thinking about you. You're important to me, you matter to me. So whether it's a family gathering party or traveling, something you can say before you go is, just so you know, I'll be by your side the whole time. If anything feels uncomfortable, we can step out or leave. Your comfort is more important than anything else. What this gives somebody who's been betrayed is an emotional exit plan. It also reinforces your role as their emotional ally, not someone that they have to manage, and it takes the pressure off of them to feel like they have to manage the situation. 

(03:45):

The fourth thing you can do during the holiday season to turn your negative cycle into a positive cycle is to keep communication open, but not force communication so you can check in gently without interrogation. So you can ask, how are you doing right now? Where are you at from one to 10? I just want to stay tuned in so I can support you. Little questions like that make it easier for people who've been betrayed to speak up without needing to explain or justify their feelings. The fifth thing that you can do during the holiday season to turn our negative cycle into a positive cycle is make room for grief. Holidays frequently stir up sadness, anger, even numbness, even in those moments that seem happy, you can say something like, it's okay to not be okay during this season. You don't have to smile for anybody, especially not for me. 

(04:42):

You can normalize the messiness by comments like that, validate their feelings, validate what they're going through, the triggers, the pain, the sadness, even the numbness, the confusion because people have been betrayed. They may not even know if we're going to have Christmas next year, Thanksgiving next year as a family, other holidays that we may celebrate as a family. Are we going to celebrate those? Are we going to have those and the more supportive we can be available, we can be sensitive, we can be, the easier it is to turn this into a positive cycle instead of a negative cycle. The sixth thing we can do to turn this into a positive cycle instead of a negative cycle is to ask something like this, is there something meaningful we can start this year just for us? Why creating new traditions together matters is that creating new rituals helps rewrite painful associations and it helps the betrayed partner feel more empowered to co-create the future. 

(05:42):

The seventh way to turn our negative cycle into a positive cycle this holiday season is to stay transparent. The holidays are full of extra errands, texts, outings, and parties, which can become trigger minefields. So we want to be proactive. Something you can say to help be supportive of your betrayed partner is, here's what my schedule looks like today. If anything changes, I'll let you know right away. I don't want there to be any doubt or fear that you have. Comments like that, remove secrecy and they show consistent effort to be trustworthy without being asked. The eighth way we can turn our negative cycle into a positive cycle is we can protect the betrayed partner's boundaries with others. So if you're around friends or family who know about the betrayal or worse, maybe they were even involved, don't leave your mate to emotionally fend for themselves. 

(06:39):

Something you can say to other people if needed is this isn't a time or a place for any uncomfortable questions. We're focused on healing and supporting each other. Showing loyalty to the betrayed spouse must be visible, especially in social or family settings where all dynamics are at play. The ninth thing you can do to turn negative cycles into positive cycles is to be ready for flashbacks or mood swings. You might be laughing together one minute and then suddenly the betrayed partner shuts down. That doesn't mean you've done something wrong. It might just mean a memory got triggered. Something you can say is you don't have to explain, I'm here with you. Take the time you need when you've been unfaithful. If you can be a calm presence in those moments, it helps your mate regulate their nervous system. You're showing that they don't have to be afraid. 

(07:33):

You're showing that you're not afraid of their pain. The 10th thing you can do to turn your negative cycle into a positive cycle, this holiday season is end each day with reassurance. Even a 32nd moment before bed can rebuild connection. If you've been unfaithful, you can say something like, thank you for showing up today. I know it's not easy. I'm proud of how you're facing this. I'm grateful we're doing this together. Statements like that help end the day with safety and validation, which are critical for a betrayed partner who may still fall asleep, replaying old memories, may not even be sleeping all through the night, may be triggered easily by all kinds of things. So statements like that. Let them know you're there for them, that you're still there and you want to be there. It can be helpful if the person who had the affair has an attitude of unwilling to do whatever I have to do to help you get better. 

(08:27):

By being emotionally supportive, by being proactive, by just being present, I'm willing to show you that I'm willing to do whatever it takes. That attitude can change everything, and these are 10 ways for people who've been unfaithful to show that attitude to the betrayed partner. I want to segue, if you'll stay with me for a few more minutes on how our program at Healing Broken Trust differs from normal marriage counseling. What we offer in our program is a clear plan versus usually what marriage counseling offers is no plan. At Healing Broken Trust, we show you exactly what to work on first, second, and third, and typically, couples therapists don't have a clear plan for these kinds of situations. Part of what we do at Healing Broken Trust is we focus on the 20% of actions that drive 80% of the results. However, most therapists are generalists. 

(09:23):

They're not infidelity experts. They often treat it as equal to other issues couples face, which just retraumatizes the injury partner. What we offer is a process that is focused and fast. Many couples say they've made more progress with us in a few days than in months or even years of couples therapy. What often happens in counseling is that weekly long hour sessions with no clear structure often means couples just vent without fixing the real problems or experts in healing. Infidelity versus general help that you may get in a couple's therapist office. Unfortunately, many couples therapists just treat betrayal like a normal marriage problem, but it's not in healing. Broken trust. We've helped thousands of couples compared to other couples therapists, and normally what they try to do to help people work through it is they move them into a process of false forgiveness where they force the betrayed to forgive before they're ready, without any accountability from the person who broke trust or helping the person who broke trust to become a healer that their marriage needs. 

(10:34):

And at Healing Broken Trust, we look at ourselves as the teacher with other couples, therapists being the student. We have taught therapists how to heal couples after Betrayal. They come to us to learn how to do this, so why not learn from the person who trains the people that you would go to for help, especially when your marriage is on the line. If you were dealing with a deadly form of cancer, you would want the best help you could get for yourself or your family member. Your children and your family deserve the best help you can give them. That's what we offer at Healing Broken Trust. I'll see you guys next time. Thank you.

Ep 18: Stages of Trauma Recovery - How To Get Through It Once And For All

Brad:

Working through the trauma. To be honest with you, it really depends on how well a person who had the affair is being a healer, if they're going to work, how successfully they work through the trauma, because that person who's been betrayed needs honesty, they need answers, they need closure on this and they want it resolved. But these things that we're talking about with the trauma, it keeps people stuck in a way where you can't think about anything, but that

Morgan:

You are listening to Healing Broken Trust podcast with Brad Morgan Robinson, where we talk about healing from affairs, infidelity, trust, and cheating in your relationship from the perspective of a professional marriage therapist and a fair recovery expert if you're wanting to heal your relationship after infidelity. This is the podcast for you and we're officially on episode number 18 and we're talking about the steps that you can take to recover from trauma. Alright, so we've had this little mini four-part series of trauma. We're at the fourth part, and we're talking about how to recover from this trauma. And if you haven't already, make sure to download episodes 15, 16, and 17, which are the first three parts to this trauma series. And also episode one is really useful as well to kind of understand this in context of the seven stages of the recovery process. So make sure to do that, it'll really help you a lot.

And in addition to that, make sure you go to our website, healing broken trust.com/episode 18. That's the number 18. Download the free resources. They'll really help you to follow along and to really make the most out of this podcast so that you can really, really have the healing you deserve. So that's again, healing Broken trust.com/episode 18. Get those resources, make the most of them. Also, you can leave a message on our website as well. You can actually record an audio message. It can be totally anonymous if you want. And we do have weekly calls that you can join us on when you go and download those free resources. We offer that as an option for you to take advantage of as well. You can ask those questions live, and if you leave a message, we do make sure to answer those questions on our weekly call, and you're welcome to join us. There's a promotion that we're running on there as well that you can take advantage of. I think it's a dollar for the first month. So go to healing broken trust.com/episode 18. And let's get started. We'll start today's show with a listener question.

Okay, this question comes from a gentleman in Broken Arrow and he says, it was really helpful to learn that I'm not crazy, like I truly believed I was since I've been acting so jumpy and suspicious all the time. Instead, learning about the symptoms and triggers in the last show helped me to realize situations that I need to avoid in order to get through this. But I would really like to know how do you know you're recovering and what is the process? We've been talking about the affair recovery process as discovery, ambiguity, trauma meaning forgiveness.

Brad:

We've been talking about those

Morgan:

Stages,

Brad:

Those individual steps, but even with trauma, there's steps within trauma.

And so that's what that person's wanting to know. So let's talk about that. We've talked about trauma in terms of symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder. For many people, it's the most difficult thing they've ever experienced feeling like discovering their spouses betrayed. And so dealing with that injured spouse's sense of trauma, it does follow an outline. And part of that, the first part is outcry. In this period of outcry, there are strong bewildering emotions. And the injured spouse, they feel stunned, overwhelmed, and probably have a strong sense of anger that their spouse cheated and the affair partner.

And sometimes that anger is really more rage. And so there's a strong sense of anger and they feel stunned. They're overwhelmed. A lot of bewildering emotions, just people start feeling crazy. And it's just kind of this emotional rollercoaster that starts the next stage after outcry is avoidance and denial. An injured husband probably this guy probably feels numb. He has no desire, so he withdraws some people, avoids other people. During that time, the guy that emailed us, it's not uncommon for him to feel constricted emotionally. And usually you'll see people like this just stare blankly into space. Has anyone in his shoes would he probably, well, he really needs to be getting back to life as usual and engage in things that he did before he found out about the affair, things that were important to him, like work, sports, kids, household responsibilities. But after the affair I've noticed is many people report feeling like the world is gray at this time. Many people feel physically and emotionally numb. They may even find they have no desire to talk about it. There's an outcry, then there's avoidance and denial, and people just want to really avoid it. They want to withdraw and avoid other people. And part of that is because they feel so much shame about it. They feel so humiliated, they feel so really stupid, just they feel like, gosh, I've been betrayed. This has happened to me, and here you are treating me like this.

Morgan:

I'm crazy.

Brad:

Yeah, well, I'm crazy, but just the way trauma works, it's almost like one of those things you don't know until you've lived through it, until you've gone, I mean, you can read about it, you can hear me talk about it. And this is one of the things with betrayers is commonly they haven't been betrayed. And so when they're trying to help their spouse heal and be a healer and nurture or supportive, they really become dismissive. And so they get stuck and they can get stuck in this avoidance and denial stage. And so a lot of people don't want to talk about it. They'll go numb. And when you go numb, you're blacking out even the positive emotions. And we've talked about that before,

Morgan:

And we're talking about trauma recovery, and we had a question about how do you know you're recovering and what is the process?

Brad:

Well, as I was saying, the first part of this is there's an outcry. There's avoidance and denial, and then you have intrusive thoughts. Once the denial wears off, people start who've been betrayed, start experiencing intense emotions and thoughts related to the affair, and they begin to break into your awareness in your mind. Once that avoidance and denial wears off, you start thinking about the affair much, much more become like an obsession at times. And so these thoughts are accompanied by physical arousal, the strong ways of thoughts and emotions. Typically, they can wane for a time giving people a feeling of normalcy. Okay, I'm not thinking about it. I'm not obsessing about it, but I also don't have these thoughts just popping into my head.

Morgan:

Maybe elaborate a little bit on the outcry part. What does that look like? Is it yelling? I mean, you talked about rage, but are they looking for help? Are they looking to their

Brad:

Spouse? What is it? Well, I think in some ways they're stunned, they're shocked, just overwhelmed, oh my gosh, this, what are we going to do? It's almost like finding out somebody you love has cancer.

Morgan:

They're so confused and

Brad:

So yeah, you're just shocked and maybe you're upset and you cry. It's kind of a stunned feeling,

Morgan:

Kind of like the discovery process.

Brad:

But then also people just, sometimes that stun ness wears off too and they just get really angry sometimes when people feel obsessed and have intrusive thoughts, those are two different things. Obsessive is you have a hard time, just stop thinking about it yourself. You can't put it down. And then intrusive thoughts are those times you're not thinking about it. There's all these little reminders and we've talked about that. And so these intrusive thoughts will also make that person physically aroused. So our person that emailed us is probably experiencing some physical arousal in a sense. These strong waves of thoughts and emotions, they can wane for a time, give you a feeling of normalcy, but they do return. And feeling aroused is common during the very early days and weeks of affair recovery, A lot of factors that go into how long it really takes to overcome an affair. But it lingers when betrayed spouses feel uncared for by their partner, by their spouse who had the affair or when they feel like they don't understand what drove their spouse to have the affair. So it's two different things. If you don't feel like you're really cared for,

Then it can wane, or excuse me, it doesn't wane. It will continue. The intensity will continue. The intrusive thoughts will continue. And so if they don't feel cared for, they're going to continue to have intrusive and obsessive thoughts. Or if they feel like, gosh, I don't understand what drove you to have an affair. I don't understand your thought process, I don't understand why, then it's going to continue to wane.

Morgan:

And that goes into the meaning process. We'll talk about.

Brad:

Yeah, and I said to continue to wane. I mean, it'ss not going to wane and it's not going to relax. It's going to continue to stay at that pattern of intensity and obsessiveness, and it's going to make you feel like you're crazy, but you're really not. This is a normal predictable pattern that people experience after an affair, but they do feel crazy. But like I said, you're not crazy if you're experiencing this. And so many betrayed spouses, they'll experience hypervigilance during this time, and that's the feeling that causes them to snoop around and to investigate whether or not what their spouse is saying is true or not.

Morgan:

That's where he's talking about suspicion. He's very suspicious.

Brad:

And so there's outcry, avoidance and denial, intrusive thoughts. And then there is the next part of this working through the trauma. And I would say this is probably the longest period, obviously a lot of people I work with, outcry, very short avoidance and denials, very short, intrusive thoughts can be a very long period for people, especially if they're struggling with understanding why. And if they're struggling with their spouse isn't really being there as a nurturer, as a healer, as being supportive. And if they feel like their spouse is continuing to lie to 'em,

They're going to stay in that place. But working through the trauma, to be honest with you, it really depends on how well a person who had the affair is being a healer, if they're going to work, how successfully they work through the trauma. Because that person who's been betrayed needs honesty, they need answers, they need closure on this and they want it resolved. But these things that we're talking about with the trauma, it keeps people stuck in a way where you can't think about anything but that. So let's talk about working through the trauma. When people start working through the trauma, they start feeling like, okay, the time has come where I need to work on this. And they're ready to face the reality of the affair. They've experienced all these thoughts, all these feelings, they talked it through with their spouse and hopefully properly trained counselor who can help them through infidelity,

Morgan:

Which is very much different than just marriage counseling, standard marriage counseling.

Brad:

Yeah, I would say infidelity. It's absolutely different.

Morgan:

In what ways do you want to talk a little bit about,

Brad:

Yeah, I'll say this. How infidelity recovery or a fair recovery is different than marriage counseling. It falls under the banner of marriage counseling because you go to a marriage counselor for it, but it doesn't fit the mold of, I would say just

Morgan:

Communication.

Brad:

Communication, improving our sex life. And sometimes people will come to marriage counseling, oh, we had an affair, we've got to improve the marriage. And they think that's what they have to do. But really what needs to be done is the injured spouse needs to understand this. The couple needs to understand this. The person who's had the affair needs to work through issues that drove them to this.

Morgan:

But it's really important to know that you still, even with a fair recovery, you don't want to go to individual counseling to work on the marriage.

Brad:

No, that's a bad idea.

Morgan:

Even though you need to work out individual issues, the best way to do that is in marriage counseling. Correct?

Brad:

Yeah. And of course, if you go to somebody individually, they may be somebody that works with a marriage counselor, but sometimes that's a bad idea to go to somebody individually just because a lot of people don't understand infidelity. So basically you're working through the trauma, how you're working through it is you're ready to face it. There's false beliefs about yourself that you're correcting. You've grieved for the loss of the affair, you're starting to feel healthy again. A new commitment is made to the marriage with both spouses pledging to give a hundred percent to the marriage. And you're at a place where you feel like the marriage is stronger than it was before. You feel like you can finally move on. And one of the things I like to emphasize is that if couples get stuck at a stage before it's completed, then these feelings and symptoms of PTSD will continue and you just get stuck and you keep going back. But most couples who outlined what we're talking about, and this is good news, I want to emphasize this. One of the things, if couples follow what we're talking about, they're going to feel like the first three months is going to be the hardest period of time.

But that's only if they're a hundred percent honest. They're disclosing things. They're in regular therapy every week, they're getting the help they need. They're really jumping in, and both of 'em are tackling this and really trying to conquer this after three months. Not that I'm saying you're a hundred percent recovered, but the trauma aspect, you feel like it's significantly diminished. Sometimes people get stuck after a year of time. They still feel like they did when they first discovered or like they did when in the early stages.

Morgan:

And that's because both people are not both feet in being completely out there and honest.

Brad:

And there may be other factors at play, but we'll get to that in a second.

Morgan:

But you're talking about the first three months.

Brad:

So the first three months for a lot of couples is generally the crisis period

Morgan:

Where the shock is the biggest

Brad:

Shock. It's the shock, it's the outcry, it's the intrusive thoughts, and they only get to that place where they feel like not that the affair is behind them, not that it doesn't hurt, all I'm saying is that their first three months is generally the crisis period for a lot of couples. If after about six months you're still feeling how you do after maybe the first month of working on things, there may be more at play. And part of that may be the betrayer is not really being there as a healer, not really being honest, not really being who they need to be, so they're not being honest. So you can't heal. And every time there's a lie or something like that that has to be corrected or you're not being transparent, it's going to really hold back the injured spouse. But this is really important though too. Sometimes with being betrayed, what will happen is we get stuck because this is traumatic. It can activate old wounds as well. And so sometimes people who've been betrayed, you'll only know this if you are about six months in, you're not really getting anywhere and you're still feeling the same way and your spouse is being, there is a healer. They're trying to do everything right at that time. It may be a good idea to look into individual therapy. And there's some really neat breakthroughs that have occurred in helping people overcome trauma. And so do you want to find a good trauma therapist who can help you individually work through this? But I would only do that after trying to work through things as a couple first.

And that would be something that your marriage counselor could give you advice on how to find somebody who to go to. They may be working with somebody that they can refer you to.

Morgan:

What you're saying is that's after six months of both people being completely out there and completely honest and completely

Brad:

Transparent. And I want to say that's a good question because one of the things we get, a lot of times we will get people into our office who have done no work on the affair after a year, maybe two years, sometimes even five years. Then that person feels like, okay, I'm past this trauma aspect. But after having worked on it for six months, you still feel like you do it day one, you don't need to drop marriage counseling, something's probably going on. Your marriage still needs help. But what you need to do is you need to seek individual help as well for trauma. For trauma, for maybe past hurts, past abuse, past deep wounds, past hurts that you experienced from people. You need to get help for that

Morgan:

Completely unrelated even sometimes to what happened with you and your spouse, right?

Brad:

Yeah,

Morgan:

Parents or whatever.

Brad:

And let me say this, I want to get onto how people know they're recovering, and I want to get to that in a second. But so the first three months is really the crisis period. A lot of people feel like the trauma, they're not past it, but they really feel like, okay, I'm a lot better than I was

Morgan:

Progress.

Brad:

I still have some bad days. I still some dark days, but I feel like I'm a lot better. After six months, you feel like you're not getting better. You probably need to see an individual therapist, but do that only after talking with your marriage counselor about that, who's helping you work through infidelity. The first year anniversary, you should be feeling a lot better than you do, but that's going to be a rough time

For people. And also holidays are going to be rough for people. Valentine's Day, Christmas holidays, family get togethers these times that should be really important. Those are going to be rough, and it's going to take about a full two years if everything goes right for you to feel like you're past it. If there's a lot of lying in the beginning and a lot of deception going on, it's going to push you back at least six months in the affair recovery process. And so I want to get into that next question that you had Morgan on how to recover from the

Morgan:

Affair. How do you know that you're recovering? What is that process? Yeah,

Brad:

Okay. Basically how you're recovering from the affair. Number one is you can recall or dismiss the affair at will.

Brad:

And

Brad:

What I mean by that is you're no longer experiencing intrusive memories of the affair. You're no longer experiencing nightmares, flashbacks, or these triggers. So it's something you choose to think about. It's not just this random haphazard flood, flood of thoughts, an onslaught of thoughts. It's something that you choose to pick up and look at in your mind, and it's something that you choose to put down in your mind.

Morgan:

You have

Brad:

Control. You have control over it. The second is you can remember the affair with appropriately intense feelings. What I mean by that is you can look at it without getting really angry, but you can also look at it, and this is what people need to understand. You can also look at it where you're no longer detached or emotionally numb.

Morgan:

Interesting.

Brad:

And what I mean by that is that's part of that avoidance and denial. And people can live there and feel like, oh, everything's okay, because they're an avoidance in the dial.

Morgan:

They're grinning and bearing it.

Brad:

Yeah. And one of the things that happens with trauma is people feel and they feel like they're watching somebody else's life. And so the third thing that how you're recovering as an individual from the trauma aspect is you can identify feelings about the affair that you are experiencing without becoming overwhelmed. You can identify your feelings about the affair without going numb or disassociating,

Morgan:

Which is something we talked about.

Brad:

And what I mean by disassociating is tuning others out, by immersing yourself in solitary activities instead of withdrawing. So you can identify what you're feeling about the affair without becoming overwhelmed, going numb or just withdrawing

Morgan:

From going into your hide hole and not coming out.

Brad:

Yeah. And then a couple other things. You can predict feelings of depression and anxiety. That's how you know you're recovering. You can start predicting feelings of depression, anxiety coming. They may not be gone completely, but it's at least tolerable. Wow.

Morgan:

Yeah,

Brad:

And here's the other thing. You're recovering from an affair as the injured spouse when you can allow yourself to be around other people and have the emotional capacity for empathy.

Morgan:

Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Brad:

So that's really important. And you're recovering when you have uncovered the meaning from the affair. And that's what our next show is going to be about. You're no longer obsessed and replay the information you have in your head. You're no longer just obsessed replaying things. It's not like a movie reel going on in your head and you've been able to accept yourself and no longer practice self blame. Many times people when they've been betrayed is they blame themselves for what's happened. And let me say this, it's important to understand that the affair recovery process for the injured spouse is different with every injured spouse. Sometimes there's other factors that go into this that make the trauma recovery portion longer. Past wounds are a factor that goes into this sexual abuse being cheated on before other relationship issues that you've had from within the marriage can make it more difficult. And are they being honest? That's something that you need to know. Are they helping you? And so those are factors that go into it. That's about it.

Morgan:

Well, that's fantastic. So much more self-aware, much more able to connect, and less hurt.

Brad:

Thanks for listening to Healing Broken Trust. If you like this episode, you can always get our show notes and more details and links to the resources we discussed at healingbrokentrust.com. Also, as long as you're online, head on over to healing broken trust.com/retreat for details on an upcoming one-on-one retreat with me. If you like us, please subscribe and leave a review for us on iTunes. As always, everything discussed on this podcast is either my opinion or Morgan's opinion and is not to be taken as relationship advice because I'm not your therapist, nor have I considered your personal situation as your therapist. This podcast is for your entertainment and education only, and I really do hope you've enjoyed it. See you Until next time

Ep 69: 3 Things You Need If You're Feeling Stuck