Transcript:
Morgan: Today we're going to start out with a listener question. Brad someone was asking, "I haven't experienced an affair, but my sister has. And as an outsider, I just don't understand why people risk everything like this. Why do people risk their whole lives for such a fleeting experience?
Brad: Yeah, that's a great question. And in fact, a lot of people who don't understand affairs, even people who had affairs, they don't know why they risk it. And that's a great question. In fact, I want to spend all day addressing that. And it's really...
Morgan: Or at least the next 30 minutes.
Brad: Yeah the next 30 minutes. Because this is really important. If you've ever been through an affair, if you've ever committed an affair, you are probably experiencing limerence. There's different types of affairs. In fact, every affair is different, but some affairs, there is a common theme and that theme is limerence. And what I mean by limerence is--let me define this because our English Language when we talk about love...
Morgan: It's kind of limited.
Brad: It's very limited. There's only--we talk about love as a choice, I choose to love you. We talk about love as a feeling. We talk about love as self sacrifice. There's different ways that we describe love, but we all use one word. And so basically, what limerence is and this is--not everybody who has an affair though experiences limerence and let be very clear on that. If you're listening to this and you've been betrayed, this may not be what happened to you, but this is what happens a lot of the time. Not every affair is this or it doesn't reach this, to its full maturity and when it does reach this, to its full maturity, that's when people are looking to leave, they want to be done with their marriage, they want to be done with their relationship, they're done with their spouse.
Morgan: Okay, and that's the betrayer that's done with the relationship?
Brad: Yeah.
Morgan: So what is limerence Brad?
Brad: Okay, limerence, it's commonly known as infatuation, love sickness, romantic love, love addiction or obsessive love. And if you've ever, most--not everybody has experienced this, but a lot of people at some point or another in their lifetime will experience this.
Morgan: Even if their hasn't been an affair, there could still be limerence?
Brad: Yeah, I'm talking about in their lifetime like when they were dating in high school, had a crush on somebody, you had a crush on a cheerleader or the football player--you know something like that or just somebody in your class. Where this gets really dangerous is you're married, you have a crush on a co-worker or you develop a friendship with somebody and you develop infatuation with that person, there's a love sickness there, you develop romantic love, a love addiction. It becomes obsessive love. And so, the answer to this person's question, I want to kind of describe the signs of what experiencing limerence is and then I want to get into kind of the stages of how limerence grows.
Morgan: So you can understand why people seem to risk everything.
Brad: Yeah, yeah and let me--before I get into that, I want to talk about the two types of affairs. And again, there's many different types of affairs, but there's two that specifically are kind of the limmerent affairs. And the first is limmerent affair and then the second one is the 'I want to be in lover' affair.
The limmerent affair, this type of affair is characterized by two individuals who believe they are in love. With this type, betrayers believe that they have fallen in love and they feel powerless over powerful emotions. And it's not uncommon for them to feel guilty about what they are doing, but at the same time, they feel they are no longer in love with their spouse and know that they will never be happy unless they are with their lover.
This type of relationship frequently develops from an existing friendship that begins to deepen as the boundaries between the two individuals weaken. It's not necessarily based on sex. In fact, the power driving the relationship is a strong emotion generated by the growing romance. In this type of affair, betrayers have most likely made the decision to leave their marriage. They believe they can no longer--they can never be happy unless they get to be with their affair partner, the one they love. And with this type of affair, it can indicate there's a deeper problem in the marriage, but let me be clear, the marital problem isn't the cause of this type of affair, but there may have been deficits or defects in the marriage at the very least, that serve as a catalyst for the betrayer's motivations to consider working---looking outside of their marriage.
With this kind of--the limmerent affair, some of the characteristics of this are the betrayer believes that they want out of the marriage, I'm done with the marriage, the betrayer believes that he or she is in love with the affair partner and is willing to sacrifice life as they know it for the opportunity to be with the affair partner. Typically, this type of affair is a long term relationship that has developed into a romance.
Frequently, there is a pattern of behaviors--there is a pattern of the betrayer swinging back and forth between their marriage and the affair partner; they'll be home, then they'll go with the affair partner and we've experienced that several times in our office. When they're at home, they try to do what's right; they're miserable and they feel they'll never be happy. And when they are with the affair partner, they're ecstatic but maybe feeling so guilty that they can't stand it.
So they move back home, only to feel miserable and they realize once again that they can never be happy unless they go back to the affair partner. And so many times, this dance of insanity can continue for years. Betrayers often seem incapable of making a decision about what they're going to do even though they don't want to be in the marriage. Other factors that may keep them from choosing a divorce could be the feelings of guilt or failure or they may have strong feelings about doing what's best for the kids.
And then the other type of affair is the 'I want to be in love' affair. And this is really also another type of limmerent affair, but it's just being displayed in a different way. And with this type of affair, it's love addiction. This love addiction is characterized by repetitive pattern of moving from one relationship to the next, falling into a love that doesn't last. Although their patterns have an addictive quality to them, they are not necessarily about sexual relationships.
They also do not fall under the category of people who have become emotionally involved in an inappropriate friendship. There is a compulsive pattern to this behavior. It is about falling in love with that one right person. So this is kind of like I'm waiting for my princess to come, my prince to come.
I'm waiting for this fairytale. And so it's more about falling in love with that one right person who they can never find because that's obviously not realistic. So this never ending search for the right one prevents full commitment to the marriage and having discovered that their mate isn't Mr. or Mrs. Right...
Morgan: Because they are human.
Brad: Yeah, these people will compulsively pursue the search for their soulmate. And so falling in love obviously isn't love at all. When this occurs and it's not even about the other person, it is...
Morgan: It is about the idea.
Brad: Yeah. It's how this person makes them--it's how they feel with this other person, it's about how this other person makes them feel about themselves. Anyone who has fallen in love will eventually fall out of love and must choose love and that's important. Many times people who are love addicts don't understand; they're just going from one person, experiencing limerence, love sickness, romantic love, infatuation with one person.
Eventually that will dry up and then they go the next and they believe that I can have this. This is something that will last and it's permanent and obviously it's not. But they don't understand what true love is. True love is about knowing the other person and letting the other person know you. This is healthy intimacy. It's not the false intimacy that the love addict has mistaken for love.
Morgan: Interesting what you said. It's about knowing another person and letting that person know you. That's false and all of those different things is very interesting.
Brad: Yeah and with that Morgan, love addicts--this can last maybe a couple years even up to at least one to three years, maybe up to seven years, sometimes it can last much longer--it just depends on the situation. But if it only lasts one to three years, you're not really having a lot of time for that person to get to know you or you to get to know that other person, then you kind of fall out of love, then you do it all over again.
And it's really sad. And so love addiction, it occurs in males, but probably seen more often in females. Betrayers will tend to be ambivalent about their marriage, don't know if they want to stay or go. They also tend to over value the person they're infatuated with. They are incapable of judging the negative characteristics of the affair partner. They don't see the negative characteristics, they can't make an honest objective evaluation of who this person is even though they...
Morgan: Because they're looked at as an object, a love object which is something we'll talk about here in a minute.
Brad: Yeah, yeah. Let me say this, they may see the defects in this person, the negative traits of a person that they are obsessed with, but they don't that any weight, it doesn't factor in their decision making rather they see that person as unique or special. They may or may not be in an actual relationship with this person, they're infatuated with this person.
Morgan: They may not even have ever talked to the person.
Brad: Yeah, but they have this romantic idea of what love is and they are willing to risk their marriage for it. And so it can be like an obsession that's not reciprocated which is really unfortunate.
Morgan: Gotcha. And Brad do we want to talk about what limerence looks like?
Brad: Yeah, let's talk about that.
Morgan: Okay, so I like this first one. I would like to start with the first one. The point that intrusive thinking about another person is like thinking about them as a love object, they're not even really a full person, it's a love object.
Brad: Yeah, also you can check out the book, "Love and Limerence" by Dorothy Tennov; this is where some of this information is coming from. And also of course if you need help, we can help you guys work through some of this. But Morgan, that intrusive thinking, they think of this person as a love object. But here's the key thing, it's intrusive thinking. It's almost like an involuntary...
Morgan: Like obsessive.
Brad: Yeah, it's obsessive, it's involuntary, it's compulsive, there's feelings. Some people when they experience this and I don't think we have time to get into this today, but sometimes it's unreciprocated. One person has this crush or infatuated with another and it's not reciprocated and it's very depressing, it's very sad, it's very miserable existence. There's a lot of despair there.
And that intrusive thinking plays a big part of that. Your mind will dwell on it even when you're trying to get away from it. It's very hard to get out of this kind of thing. And that will probably be the topic in another show, is how to get out of limerence. But it's intrusive, it's something that--it's almost like when you're at--you go to one of these, like you go to Best Buy or one of these electronic stores and they have a radio station playing and it's really loud, they got music playing and it's really loud.
You don't want to listen to that. Like if it's a type of music you don't like, you can't help but hear it because it's intrusive. You're trying to browse, you're trying to look at other things...
Morgan: But it's still there.
Brad: It's still there and it's intrusive and that's kind of how this can work and so it's hard for people to get out of this. Even when they want out of it, it's very difficult. They need help, they need to know how to get out of it.
Morgan: And so the second one here, a longing for reciprocation from the love object. So they just want that love object, that other person which they've objectified, they want that person to reciprocate their feelings of love, their feelings of longing.
Brad: Yeah they do. Well, once that reciprocation is met, you know I need this person to validate me, I need to be loved by this person, when they do that, that's when I find in a sense peace of mind, that's when I find satisfaction, that's when I no longer feel despair, instead I'm walking on air.
And it's really--you're either in the depths of despair or you're walking on clouds with this kind of thing. And it's really--people who go through this, it's really a horrible existence because most of the time, you're probably in the depths of despair and it's really a horrible, horrible existence.
Morgan: Gosh yeah. And so then, a third one, based on how the person who is experiencing limerence, based on how they interpret or perceive the love object's behaviors, it will significantly alter the limerence experience or the person who is experiencing limerence, their mood for good or bad. So it's up and down like you said right?
Brad: Yeah and what they'll do is, is it could be based on this conversation went with this person, it can make me feel good or bad. And in a context of an affair, you can see how people get pulled out of their marriage with this kind of thing. And those two types of affair that we described, the 'I want to be in love' affair and the limmerent affair, those are both different types of limerence.
This kind of experience, you can see how those people, both people who experience that, the betrayers who experience limerence, they want to be out of the--when it's full grown, they want to be out of the marriage because they want to be with this person, that's when they're happy, that's when they feel satisfied, that's when they feel complete.
Morgan: Gosh yeah. We can do the next one, limerence--the person that's experiencing limerence will only have one person they have a love addiction to unless it's in the early days of limerence or it's in an experience of fading limerence. Explain that.
Brad: Yeah and that's really important because many times when people are having an affair and it's a limmerent affair or it's one of these affairs where limerence is being experienced, they're able to give time and attention to their spouse and their family, they're able to give attention to their spouse in the early days and we're going to get into the stages in a minute.
They're able to still show care and affection for their spouse and their family early on or when that is ending. But when they are actually in the middle of this and it's kind of towards...
Morgan: Developed limerence.
Brad: Yeah, when it's more developed, they don't. They're just kind of cold to their spouse, they're distant to their spouse.
Morgan: Because they've kind of moved into the limmerent affair.
Brad: Yeah and their mind and everything is kind of on somebody else.
Morgan: Being taken over by the limerence.
Brad: Yeah and that can also be why like we described earlier, people move out, they separate and then they come back. And we worked with a couple where that was, for a couple of years, it was in and out, we're separated in and out and trying to battle this and didn't know how to get over it.
Morgan: And the next one here, daydreaming about the love object, returning your love and affection can cause you to feel relief from the pains of the limmerent experience. So when they actually return love and affection to you, then it kind of relieves some of the pain.
Brad: Well just even daydreaming about it, you feel better, you feel euphoric, you feel like you're walking on the clouds. Just daydreaming about them returning that love and being interested in you. When you are daydreaming about them wanting to be with you, you feel…
Morgan: Like you're there.
Brad: Yeah, you feel like you're there. You're not feeling like gosh I want them to reciprocate. You are imagining already doing it, so you feel good.
Morgan: Oh interesting, you want to go to the next one?
Brad: Yeah. The six sign of what a person is experiencing with limerence is people who experience love sickness or limerence, tend to be shy around their love object, in our scenario, the affair partner.
They tend to – they can be shy around the love object and have fear and fear the love object's rejection. And that can be different, just again, a different stage, maybe early on they're shy, they fear that rejection. But once, it's reciprocated and it's met, they're probably not shy.
Morgan: The sleeping dragon is awake.
Brad: Yeah, they're probably not fearing that rejection. But in the beginning, they will and even towards the end, they may be shy, but once it's reciprocated, probably not going to have that type of shyness.
Morgan: Interesting and so the next one, adversity can intensify the limerence. So adversity can intensify the limerence being broken up by the affair partner, them telling you they don't like you, finding…
Brad: Or the affair is over.
Morgan: Or the affair is over.
Brad: Yeah and this is important Morgan. This is crucial for people to understand who have gone through an affair or know others who've gone through an affair, adversity intensifies this love sickness, intensifies the romantic love and it intensifies infatuation, it intensifies love addiction, it intensifies the obsessive love. So when people say the affair is over, we are done...
Morgan: It's like a new challenge.
Brad: Well, it's a new challenge many times for the affair partner or even the person in the counseling office saying I'm done. They may not really be done yet. Just because the affair is discovered by the spouse, doesn't mean that they are done yet and that's where a lot of people get hurt much, much worse than they normally would because then there is a new layer of deception.
Okay, you caught me with my hand in the cookie jar and I said I'll never do it again, I'm really sorry. And then you think it's over, as the injured spouse from the affair, you think it's over and then that person keeps going back to the cookie jar.
Morgan: It's like a new layer of excitement or a new layer…
Brad: It just adds...
Morgan: Euphoria.
Brad: Yeah, it's that, but it's what I would consider it more is, it just increases those feelings of love addiction, love obsession, infatuation, love sickness. And it makes that person, it's more of a challenge for them. And it intensifies the feelings for that other person. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do marriage counseling or you shouldn't confront them about an affair, being worried that they're going to find out and then they're going to want to be with them more.
Usually, once this is discovered, that's kind of what ends it, but there are times when people become more obsessed and they don't end it. And I've worked with plenty of people where the affair partner has contacted them after – hey I'm done, I'm done with the affair, let them know in no uncertain terms, we are finished here and the affair partner is not done yet. They're still stuck in that place of limerence and they become the pursuer, they become the homewrecker.
And recently, we had a situation where a woman – and this happens from time to time, we had a woman who was much younger than – she was probably in her early 20s, she contacted unfortunately the wife of somebody she was having an affair with in an attempt to try to break up that marriage.
That happens a lot, we just had that – see that a few times a month and it's very common, but that's that adversity, it intensifies it. And that means just because one person is done with the affair, doesn't mean the other is. And that can also mean you think it's over, but it's not really over because those feelings have intensified.
Morgan: Okay well with interest of time, let's get through some of these. Individuals stuck in love sickness find themselves preoccupied with looking for signs that their love has returned whether those signs are realistic or not. So they're trying to read into it, they're trying to find...
Brad: Yeah, they're looking into things that's really not there just to try to make themselves feel like it's been reciprocated and make themselves feel better.
Morgan: And so whenever someone has ended the affair and in no uncertain terms have ended the affair, that other person will try to look for reasons or little loopholes in that little, what they said.
Brad: I'm going to read the next one. Nine, when you are experiencing limerence, there is tremendous heartache when you feel uncertain about the future with your love object or affair partner. So this is really important, this is that despair, that depression, that heartache when you feel like there is uncertainty. And that's why you feel like when they are reciprocating back to you, you're so happy.
Morgan: Oh, okay. And when an individual does feel like their love object or the affair partner likes or loves them back, they have a feeling of walking on air, that euphoria.
Brad: And I will do the next two Morgan. When an individual experiences obsessive love, this kind of limerence we are talking about, this infatuation, when somebody experiences that, other concerns in life are placed in the background.
They're not as – they are more distracted at work, they are not as productive. They just kind of seem to be somewhere else. And so other things in life kind of get placed on the back burner, that could be their spouse and kids as well. And then the next one, number 12 and the final one, is individuals experiencing this limerence or infatuation, they emphasize the attractive qualities, the attractive positive qualities of the affair partner and even those average qualities that they possess while largely ignoring the negative qualities of the love object.
And later on, they may recognize them, but they don't have any bearing. And so that's why and we've seen this in our office where people can be totally obsessed and in love with somebody who is really just not a good match for them or they shouldn't really be getting married to and so not every affair, like I was saying earlier, is a limmerent affair, driven by romantic love or obsessive love or love addiction, love sickness, whatever.
Limerence is kind of an inclusive term for all those descriptions. It's not – and not every affair is that way, somebody is a sex addict, this obviously it's not that. Emotional affairs, they are not always this.
And so, I just want to have that clear distinction. And this is an important topic for us because it's very hard to get out of this if you don't really understand what this is and that there is a way, proven way of how to fall out of love, how to be rejoined to your family and so that's what we want to talk about. And we're going to talk about what the typical course of limerence looks like, somebody who experiences limerence.
Morgan: Okay, let's talk about this typical limerence experience. What does it look like?
Brad: Well there are, I would say six definable stages and so we are going to work through that. Number one, the first step, the first stage is the experience of limerence or that romantic love begins at a very specific recallable point. And what I mean by that is, people know when the experience this. This isn't like "Oh, I think I fell in love" or "I think I experienced this", people know when this happens to them.
Morgan: Their eyes meet.
Brad: Yeah. Typically the moment is when eye contact is made with the love object. And so limerence is something that happens at a very specific moment. And commonly, people when they're dating, they can tell you that specific moment when they started to fall in love. If it's a limmerent affair, they can tell you that as well. But usually betrayers feel very, very, very uncomfortable talking about that and it's not really helpful to get into that necessarily, but you don't want to get into too much of the details.
Morgan: When you're talking about it with your spouse basically.
Brad: Well as a spouse who has been betrayed, you don't really want to know too much about love letters, correspondence of that type.
Morgan: In that moment and feelings that they felt towards that other person because you want to pull them out of that. You don't want them to be dwelling on that. I think would you say it's true that that's part of the reason why limerence is something they fell into because they dwelled on it, they stuck to it and they kept thinking over it and they mull over it and that lovesick feeling?
Brad: I would agree with that because it's a very addictive feeling. Usually, people who fall into limerence, not always, usually though they didn't have good relationships with their parents or caregivers growing up, so they have a difficulty bonding and attaching, not that it is always extremely difficult, but there is some difficulty there especially with the opposite sex. And then the other is there's probably a little bit of depression there and so it kind of sets them up for this.
Morgan: For this attachment that's just so strong that they can't seem to get out of it, the addiction part of it.
Brad: Now the affair partner is someone who the betrayer is physically attracted to or the betrayer feels like this person is interested in them. And so, this is – I'm not trying to be crude, but commonly, you see people who are you just don't – neither one of them is very physically attractive, but they are head over heels in love. And it's not necessarily that they find that person attractive, that's not why they are experiencing this romantic love, it's somebody else is interested me. And that's a driving point.
Morgan: They like that they are likable.
Brad: Yeah, they like that somebody else likes them. And so, it happens at a very specific moment in time. It's the first part of this course of limerence.
Morgan: And then the second one, thinking about the love object becomes pleasurable with a feeling of freeness and focus on the positive attributes of the love object or that person. They're not really seeing them clearly, that's why we call them love object.
Brad: They are made into an object. It's not a real person. But thinking about this, it is pleasurable for people experiencing limerence. There is a feeling of freeness and the focus and this is important, the focus is on the positive qualities. And as this develops, there is not a lot of negative qualities taken into consideration.
Morgan: Yeah, so it's not really reality.
Brad: No, it's not reality, it's the fantasy factor. And what happens is, is people fall in love with people who are really horrible for them. I've heard a lot of horrible experiences where people fell in love with somebody that just treated them like crap, but they are still with them because of that – because I remember when I fell in love, our eyes locked – I've heard that.
Morgan: That fantasy story.
Brad: Yeah, the fantasy and the soulmate, these feelings I get from this person.
Morgan: And at this stage, we're talking about this, it's possible to have more than one potential love object or affair partner, even if it's in your head. It maybe isn't fully developed into limerence yet, so it's kind of at the beginning stage, you have more than one.
Brad: Yeah, we're still in the beginning, it happens at a specific recallable time and because this is still the beginning, you can still like two different people. Like I've explained before, it can be like having a crush on two different people, kind of like in middle school, like you might have liked several different people. It's the same with this. You can still at this point...
Morgan: You can get out of it if you wanted, if you decided.
Brad: Yeah, you can still get out of it. You can still have feelings for your spouse, but you still think about that person because that feels good.
Morgan: And it's kind of like where if you have experienced an affair like this where the – this back and forth feeling, where they are with you and they leave and go to the other person and they come back, maybe guilt or they still love you and then they go back. And then they have these relapses where it's just I don't understand how you are walking down the hallway at work and you just lock eyes again and then all of a sudden you've fallen back into this pattern of addiction and it's very much like that, kind of that back and forth, back and forth.
Brad: Yeah, but in the beginning, you can choose and you have more control over it.
Morgan: More control.
Brad: The third step in this course is the potential reciprocation from the affair partner, it can be euphoric. It's very, very euphoric when that person – if you like this person and then they respond back to you with liking you back, it's a very, very euphoric. And when this is happening, you are experiencing this, you got that person to like you back, it's a euphoric feeling, but then when you think about their positive qualities, you will replay interactions or you will replay conversations that you had, you will replay specific moments that you had with them while at the same time, you'll have an increased focus on your own relevant attributes.
Morgan: Yeah and it's really a chemical high. I mean the brain is going crazy, like those mirror neurons, the cuddle hormone that you hear about, I mean it is really firing off, firing off of. And so, it's very much a high, chemical brain high that you have and so that's really the big thing, wouldn't you agree that is causing people to fall into this limmerent affair?
Brad: Yeah, but just that constant, already working in your mind, replay the moments...
Morgan: Mulling it over.
Brad: Mulling it over, kind of...
Morgan: Because you love that euphoric high that's just happening in your brain.
Brad: Oh and they are responding back to you, they're giving that back to you. And so at that third point in this course, it begins to grow and it doesn't take a long for this kind of thing to grow either.
Morgan: To be what? A pattern of a week?
Brad: It could be yeah, it really honestly could be. Some of this that we're talking about could be yeah, it could be a week or shorter to be honest with you.
Morgan: Wow, so it's just really a fall into…
Brad: It just depends. This is not a one-size-fits-all, it's one of those...
Morgan: Kind of the perfect storm, like a perfect storm. You were saying there is a perfect history of this person, maybe they've had attachment injuries or attachment issues with the spouse or parent in the past or just as a kid, maybe some depression falls into play and you've got this kind of cocktail of events that kind of cause them to fall into this thing that we're talking about. Wouldn't you say?
Brad: Hmm hmm.
Morgan: So the next one is romantic love or love addiction increases where obstacles exist or when the person experiencing limerence doubts their love object or that affair partner feels the same way about them. So it's kind of like these obstacles put in the way and it's like a gladiator movie, oh yeah! So it's this another sort of euphoric high that happens, that causes you to really want to go and win the heart, kind of like the knight in shining armor with this person.
Brad: Yeah and Morgan what you just said is really key to this. When there is obstacles or challenges, this experience of limerence, love addiction, infatuation, it only increases. So one of the things that makes this, that the drives this is the secrecy that's involved. We have to keep this a secret, it's a challenge, it's an obstacle.
You know this isn't right, I'm married, you're married or we have other commitments, we have families. If people knew what we were doing, this is only going to make it worse. And so that actually increases the feeling of this. And this is also Morgan, along with this same token, it's important to recognize that when people do experience limerence, if they even do recognize the negative traits that people have, it really doesn't slow down the feelings of love that they have.
Morgan: It's almost like another obstacle. Oh that's a negative quality, well it couldn't be, because we can work through this anyways. We can – and so it becomes an obstacle. But would you say that in the beginning they feel that or is it kind of towards...?
Brad: It's pretty much consistent throughout. Let me just say this, to fall out of love, maybe in the later stages, you can now see some of those negative qualities that they have and that's actually what helps you fall out of love, is you notice okay, this person is flawed, they are not all positive like they thought they were, like I thought they were. And so that's what helps you fall out of love many times.
Morgan: But if it's an addiction like this, it's much more difficult what you say. Because we've talked about when they actually go and they marry their affair partner, they start to see these negative qualities, but if there is an addiction like limerence, a limmerent quality like that into the affair, it's even more difficult for them actually to break away and see those negative qualities and when they do, it's like an obstacle like we're saying.
Brad: Yeah and so it's important to recognize that just because that person has negative attributes doesn't necessarily mean the person who is experiencing them or the betrayer is noticing those attributes.
Morgan: Okay, like a blind eye.
Brad: Yeah, they are very blind to it. So the feelings of love don't slow down and so it doesn't stop. And also, it's important to recognize that during this stage, there are attempts to that people make to physically improve their appearance or any status that they may have in order to increase their desirability to the affair partner or the love object.
Morgan: Because they don't want to be rejected.
Brad: They don't want to be rejected. There is a fear of rejection which also increases the feelings of limerence.
Morgan: And it makes it very difficult for the betrayed partner too because they'll see well my spouse is wearing that cologne I really love that they never wore before. They would go out and buy clothes and dress up and look nice and go out, but they're not going out with me. And so it is like this, what is this going on kind of thing.
And so that could really be a sign. So number five with doubt and hope about having their love returned, thinking about the love object or the affair partner can reach 100% of their time for the person. So they are experiencing this limerence and they are thinking about it all the time.
Brad: Yeah, so the person who – the betrayer or the person experiencing limerence – and limerence again, like I stated earlier, this can happen for people who are dating – that kind of thing. And so people experiencing this can reach the place where when there is doubt, okay when there is adversity or when they feel like it's been returned and this is really unfortunate for people experiencing this because they are thinking about it 100% of the time.
And you are either really greatly happy or you are completely miserable. There's really very little middle ground with this. And so, they are constantly consumed with it and honestly, people can be suicidal during this time. And any time for people to get out of limerence, I don't always recommend this, but it can be helpful to be on an antidepressant because that depression will actually fuel...
Morgan: This limmerent feeling.
Brad: The limmerent feeling.
Morgan: Yeah, because you said in the past, a lot of people who may be have experienced depression, they kind of seek those outside experiences to kind of kick in the chemicals in their brain, that kind of change it, that kind of pull them out of the depression. And so that's interesting.
Brad: When this deep thinking about the affair partner or love object, that deep thinking about the despair and depression, you are consumed with them. If people do things, if they do activities that make themselves more desirable to the love object, that will help them with that despair and depression, but that's not really something we want to encourage people to do.
And then the last step in this course that it runs, that limerence runs is when and if the love object loves back, the feelings of love sickness or limerence, it will stabilize until the next period of uncertainty. So if you get this person to love you back, reciprocate you back, this will stabilize until the next period of uncertainty.
The next time you doubt they love you, you're going to be back to despair, depression and intensity of feelings can increase once again when there is adversity, when there is perceived adversity or real adversity, just kind of drives these feelings. That's kind of the typical course and so adversity makes this worse.
And everything in an affair is obviously I would say adversity, just knowing that you are doing something wrong, that can increase this. Having this person work with you and having to keep a secret at work, that can increase it. A lot of – just the potential that other people would know increases – the secretiveness increases this. And this is important though, limerence is beatable.
This isn't something that isn't beatable. It does the last on average, anywhere from one to three years, even up to seven years and there can be episodes where some dissipate within six months and some that lasts for decades.
Morgan: Wow, I could imagine that if someone is experiencing limerence, just clinging to their spouse and fleeing, I mean fleeing for their life literally. If you work with the person you have experienced limerence towards, I mean literally – in that case, I would probably quit my job if it were me. I mean get the heck out of Dodge with your spouse and cling to your spouse.
Brad: And here is, Morgan and this is how limerence ends. The best method is really when there is starvation. You have to starve it.
Morgan: Starve the limerence feeling?
Brad: Yeah and you do that by ignoring this person, cutting them out of your life. That's really the best way to do this especially when there's been an affair, that's the way do it, that's the way you get over it. People think because you're divorced, you can't make things work, it's possible if two people want to make it work.
Morgan: That's right.
Brad: I want to say thank you for listening to our show today, thank you.
