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Interview Summary: This transcript is a discussion between Morgan Robinson and Brad Robinson, about the topic of emotional infidelity. [00:03]
We define emotional infidelity as the formation of a deep emotional connection with someone outside of the primary relationship, which violates the boundaries established by the couple. [00:19]
We discuss the impact of emotional infidelity, the differences between a harmless opposite-sex friendship and an emotional affair, and provide guidance on how to rebuild trust and connection after infidelity. [00:08]
Key Points
Emotional infidelity involves crossing boundaries of intimacy and forming a deep emotional connection with someone outside of the primary relationship. [00:19]
Emotional infidelity can be just as damaging as physical infidelity, as it leads to a violation of trust and a breakdown in the primary relationship. [00:20]
When a partner denies or dismisses the other's concerns about emotional infidelity, it can lead to further emotional pain and a deepening of the relationship injury. [01:56]
Rebuilding trust and connection after infidelity requires the couple to heal together, not just through external support, but by reconnecting and rebuilding their emotional intimacy. [06:29]
Transcript
Morgan (00:00):
Welcome to the Healing Broken Trust podcast. I'm Morgan Robinson. And I'm Brad Robinson. And today we're talking about emotional
Brad (00:06):
Infidelity. Today we're diving into what emotional infidelity is, and then we're going to talk about 20 differences between an opposite sex, friendship and emotional infidelity. So stay tuned, Morgan. Let's just jump right in. At its core, emotional infidelity occurs when one partner forms a deep emotional connection with somebody outside of the relationship. It involves crossing boundaries of intimacy that should be reserved for a significant other. Unlike physical infidelity, which involves sexual activity, emotional cheating thrives in secret conversations, growing attachments and misplaced loyalties, it often begins innocently. A coworker who listens when a spouse is too busy, a friend who understands our sense of humor when our partner seems distant. But over time, the connection intensifies and the primary relationship weakens. There's some interesting research on this by Amy Roach and Sybil Chan. They wrote a research article called Love and Infidelity Causes and Consequences. They define emotional infidelity as the occurrence of emotional involvement with a third party that violates the ground. Rules established by the couple,
Morgan (01:14):
Kind of a definition that they're working with is the occurrence of emotional involvement with a third party that violates the ground rules established by the couple. So some examples, do you want to give those or do you want me to do that
Brad (01:28):
Working? Some examples would be trusting somebody more than our partner, telling them things our spouse never hears falling in love with them. Obviously, spending time, money, or emotional effort on someone outside of our marriage and justifying it all under the label of just friends.
Morgan (01:47):
So having maybe that emotional vulnerability with someone else that you don't necessarily show to your spouse the same way. But what happens when the participating partner denies any emotional involvement and dismisses their spouse's concerns? Relationship injuries occur whenever one partner feels devalued by the other. Some wounds are small, maybe criticizing or believing something like an always or never statement like you're always working and unavailable. But as these experiences build, they become more painful and destructive. With infidelity ranking among the most devastating betrayals. When someone suspects their spouse of being unfaithful emotionally or otherwise, but is met with denial minimization, defensiveness, even mockery emotional distance or a lack of reassurance, the injury deepens. It deepens, it gets much deeper. So instead of healing, the betrayed partner is left feeling even more isolated and invalidated. And at the core of relationship injuries is a of expectations, and that is a really important point. The core of relationship injuries is a violation of expectations. We expect our spouse to be emotionally present to us, to love and support us through life's ups and downs, right? We say at the altar, we say for richer or poorer in sickness and in health. But when those expectations are shattered, when our partner withdraws or gaslights or retaliates, the emotional wound becomes even more profound. Like Brad said, we can get into 20 key ways to tell if your connection is harmless or if it's really crossing the line.
Brad (03:43):
Morgan, I want to add a couple thoughts to what you just said.
Morgan (03:45):
Okay.
Brad (03:46):
What happens when one partner denies it? Common scenario? Yeah. What I see happen oftentimes is somebody catches it early. They bring it up. They say something like, I feel like something shifted in our marriage, our relationship, and it hurts that you're turning to that other person, your friend, instead of me. And then the other person gets defensive, and then there's a dismissive laugh. It's not like that. You're counter, they start to counter attack. You're overreacting, the classic deflection. We're just friends. But here's the truth. Relationship pain doesn't need permission to be real. It's very important.
(04:23):
More relationship wounds come from a thousand little slights like you talked about, missed dinners, eye rolls, cold silences, but infidelity, even the kind without touch cut steeper. And when it's followed by denial or mockery, it's not just betrayal, it's emotional gaslighting. Because deep down, every couple operates with a silent agreement, like you mentioned, be my person. That's the agreement. You've got my back. You're going to stick with me. You're going to bring your full self into our relationship, and you're not going to invest yourself romantically in other people. You're not going to invest yourself sexually in other people. We're going to be each other's everything. But when one partner pulls back and hands that emotional closeness to somebody else, and then they deny that it's even happening, that hurt doubles. Like you said, it's really painful for people. And this is where people start getting into labeling like, you're gaslighting me. You're a narcissist, you're a psychopath. Those terms,
Morgan (05:16):
I feel the way I feel. And you don't have a right to tell me, I can't feel that way or that dismissing how I feel is it's just not right. Absolutely.
Brad (05:26):
Yeah. And this is something we talk about in our workshops where when somebody gets injured, they turn to their spouse for comfort, reassurance, support, but when their spouse is not there, it actually hurts people more. What people often say is that after the discovery of the fair, that moment hurt me the most in my entire life. 90% of people say that from research, but when people get lied to after they discover an affair, they say, you know what? The lies hurt more than the actual discovery of an affair because I'm down, and you're not here to protect me and care for me when I'm down. You're still protecting yourself. You're not protecting me anymore. You're not thinking of us. You're still selfish, still thinking of yourself. That's what they think. That's what they say.
Morgan (06:08):
Yeah. And one point that you made a second ago, I'd like to elaborate a little bit on that I think is really important is there's a beauty in having a group. A lot of people, they lose their friendships and they lose family members sometimes when infidelity is discovered. So there is a beauty in having a new set of friends, but what's really important is really being able to reconnect with your spouse. That's the ultimate goal of healing together, is to be able to turn and share those difficult things and those difficult emotions with the most important person in your life. And so that can't be stripped from the healing process. You really do have to be able to talk to your spouse, not just a friend or someone in a group or that sort of thing. You have to really learn how to be with each other again in a new way.
Brad (07:06):
You have to heal in each other's arms.
Morgan (07:08):
That's right.
Brad (07:08):
Not in the arms of a therapist or the arms of someone else or a
Morgan (07:12):
Friend.
Brad (07:13):
You have to heal in your spouse's arms.
Morgan (07:15):
That's right.
Brad (07:16):
We got to get out of a negative cycle, heal together.
Morgan (07:19):
That's in
Brad (07:19):
Each other's arms. That's what it's
Morgan (07:20):
About. And deal with the trauma. And that's what's so beautiful about these workshops is we facilitate largely, Brad facilitates that connection, that reconnection again, so that you really, truly can heal and move forward together completely together.
Brad (07:37):
Yeah.
Morgan (07:38):
Okay. Let's talk about friendship versus emotional affairs. Let's spot the differences. The first one, if it's a friendship, you share personal thoughts, but nothing that crosses emotional boundaries, someone that you might be attracted to or not. If it's an emotional affair, you tell them things you don't tell your partner, especially about struggles in your relationship. You just don't want to cross that boundary.
Brad (08:06):
So that's important. Morgan, friendships have boundaries. You can share your personal thoughts in a friendship, but nothing that really crosses those emotional boundaries. And again, the friendships we're talking about here are opposite sex friendships. These aren't with your buddies or with your girlfriends. These are with opposite sex friendships. The second difference is in friendships, you can enjoy their company, but your partner is still your main source of emotional support. They're still your spouse, still the person you made vows with. However, with an emotional affair, you turn to this person for comfort instead of your spouse.
Morgan (08:39):
Right? Okay. The third one, if it's a friendship, you never feel the need to hide conversations or interactions from your partner, but if it's an emotional affair, you delete messages downplay how often you talk or feel defensive if your partner asks about them.
Brad (08:56):
The fourth difference between an opposite sex friendship and an emotional affair is that in a friendship, your partner knows about this person and how much you talk. And in an emotional affair, you avoid mentioning them or you make excuses for why you're talking so much to them.
Morgan (09:11):
Interesting. Yeah. So number five, if it's a friendship, you don't feel guilty about how you interact with the person, but if it's an emotional affair, you would feel embarrassed if your partner saw all your messages or heard your conversations.
Brad (09:29):
Okay. The six difference between an opposite sex, friendship and an emotional affair is that in a friendship, you might talk about your marriage in general terms, but you respect boundaries in an emotional affair. You share details about your relationship, problems that should be discussed with your spouse, not an outsider,
Morgan (09:46):
Right? Number seven, if it's a friendship, you don't compare your partner to this person in an emotional affair. You start seeing them as more understanding, fun or more attractive than your spouse.
Brad (10:00):
The eighth difference between an opposite sex, friendship and an emotional affair, is that an a friendship. You don't feel nervous or excited when their name pops up on your phone. However, with an emotional affair, you get butterflies when they text you and you prioritize responding to them over your partner.
Morgan (10:16):
Interesting. So number nine, a friendship. In a friendship. Your spouse has met this person. They aren't a hidden part of your life. If it's an emotional affair, you keep them separate from your spouse, maybe even avoiding situations where they would meet.
Brad (10:35):
The 10th difference between an emotional affair and opposite sex. Friendship is in a friendship. You don't hide how often you communicate, but an emotional affair, you downplay or lie about how much you talk.
Morgan (10:47):
Number 11, if it's a friendship, you don't feel a deep emotional attachment in a sexual way to them. If it's an emotional affair, you would feel a sense of loss if you stop talking to them because you have an attraction to them.
Brad (11:06):
Okay? The 12th difference between a friendship and an emotional affair is in a friendship. You don't make excuses to talk to them or see them. However, in an emotional affair, you find reasons to reach out or spend time together with this person.
Morgan (11:18):
And number 13, if it's a friendship, you don't fantasize about a romantic or physical relationship with them. But if it's an emotional affair, you imagine what it would be like to be with them in a romantic way.
Brad (11:33):
The 14th difference is that in a friendship, you don't feel jealous when they spend time with other people. However, in an emotional affair, you get possessive or upset when they give attention to somebody else.
Morgan (11:46):
15, if it's a friendship, you don't alter your appearance for them. If it's an emotional affair, you put extra effort into how you look when you know you'll see them.
Brad (11:59):
The 16th difference between a friendship and an emotional affair is that in a friendship, when your spouse asks about this person, you don't hide your emotional connection if your partner asks about them. However, an emotional affair, when your spouse asks about this person, you change the subject or act like the relationship isn't as deep as it really is.
Morgan (12:20):
Number 17, if it's a friendship, you don't feel nervous or guilty about how close you are. If it's an emotional affair, deep down, your partner wouldn't approve if they knew the full extent of the relationship.
Brad (12:34):
The 18th difference between a friendship and an emotional affair is that in a friendship, you never feel defensive when your spouse brings this person up. However, an emotional affair, you become irritated or dismissive if your partner expresses concern.
Morgan (12:50):
And number 19, if it's a friendship, you respect your partner's feelings and set healthy boundaries. If it's an emotional affair, you struggle to set limits because you don't want to lose the connection.
Brad (13:03):
And finally, number 20, the last one. In a friendship, you prioritize your partner over anything else and anyone else. However, in an emotional affair, you start investing more energy into this person than your own relationship in your own marriage.
Morgan (13:18):
So if more of your answers fall in the emotional affair column, it's time for an honest self-check. Be honest with yourself if that's where you are in a relationship.
Brad (13:35):
And Morgan, what I like about this that we just went over is it's also good for setting boundaries in the future.
Morgan (13:41):
Yes. Yeah.
Brad (13:42):
It's like rethink. How do we operate? How do we go forward? One of the characteristics of anybody who's had an affair that we can talk about this at the workshops, what they have in common. Why did this happen? Boundaries is at the top of the list, poor boundaries. And if you've already been through this horrible situation, you can listen to what we're saying now and reverse engineer this and start implementing these boundaries.
Morgan (14:10):
Yeah.
Brad (14:10):
And maybe you had them before, maybe you didn't, but this is an opportunity to work on those boundaries again.
Morgan (14:19):
Absolutely. Absolutely. What do you do if you've already crossed the line? So if you're emotionally invested in someone more than your partner, it's time to step back and reflect Emotional affairs, create distance, secrecy, and a breakdown of trust even if no physical line has been crossed. So ask yourself, would I be okay if my partner had the same connection with someone else? Have I started hiding things about this relationship? Am I turning to this person instead of my partner for emotional support? And if the answer is yes, it's time to reassess your boundaries, like Brad said, and focus on rebuilding emotional intimacy with your spouse. And we want to invite you to come to the workshop that we have. You can find that@healingbrokentrust.com. We have more than workshops. We have masterclasses. So if you come to a workshop, it's three days, but we don't want to leave you hanging.
(15:19):
We want you to be able to keep what you've gained, keep the progress that you've gained. So we have the homework that you can do together. And then we know that two people come to the relationship and both people need help, need help, healing hurts. That's when we have a program for the betrayed partner and a program for the unfaithful partner to heal the traumas that led to the infidelity. And then of course, people are lonely. We want to connect with other people. And that's why we have small groups as well. Go to healing Broken trust.com. Join us for this workshop. It's the best workshop that's out there. It's the best program and the most comprehensive program that exists for infidelity. And we want to help you rebuild trust and connection.
Brad (16:09):
Yeah, it was made with you in mind.
Morgan (16:11):
That's right.
Brad (16:12):
Put this together. Really wanting to give you the best because you deserve it, going through this nightmare of experience.
Morgan (16:18):
Oh yeah.
Brad (16:18):
You really deserve it. Thank you for listening. See you guys next time. Bye guys.
