Morgan:
We've heard that a lot of people say before something like this happens to them, if ever they cheat on me or I'm going to be gone, there's no way that we could work on this. But the truth is, when it actually happens to you,
Brad:
You don't know.
Morgan:
You just don't know. And most of the time people want to work on it. Most of the time, people want to heal and try to rebuild the relationship. You are listening to Healing Broken Trust podcast with Brad and Morgan Robinson, where we talk about healing from affairs, infidelity, trust, and cheating in your relationship from the perspective of a professional marriage therapist and a fair recovery expert. If you want to save your relationship after infidelity, this podcast is for you. In episode 23, we're talking about how we can forgive and be forgiven. So many people want to jump straight to forgiveness without really healing from the betrayal or earning trust, and they make it so much harder to fully experience forgiveness. So we get into such a hurry to stop feeling the pain and get back to normal that we fall into the temptation of saying, do you forgive me? Yes. Great. Now stop talking about the affair. But as you may have discovered as you listen to this podcast, that that just won't work. So make sure you go and download the free resources@healingbrokentrust.com slash episode 23, and let's talk about how to forgive and be forgiven.
Today we're talking about forgiveness, right, Brad? And we're going to talk about what is forgiveness and kind of some of the myths associated with forgiving your spouse after infidelity.
Brad:
Yes,
Morgan:
Brad, you want to start talking about what is forgiveness?
Brad:
Yeah, forgiveness is something that many people claim to believe in, but when it actually comes time to forgiving, it's very hard to do. Sometimes couples struggle with forgiveness. They have a struggle feeling like they're forgiven, especially if they've cheated. I've had couples frequently after they've had an affair, come to counseling and feel hopeless that they can't repair the marriage, but they don't realize that some of the forgiveness has already taken place. Just the fact that you're in marriage counseling, your spouse is willing to work on you. Maybe it's not 100% complete forgiveness, but it shows you that they're willing to forgive
Morgan:
And work
Brad:
On the relationship and work on the relationship. And there is some forgiveness that's taken place just to get that far.
Morgan:
Yeah, we've heard that a lot of people say before something like this happens to them, if ever they cheat on me or I'm going to be gone, there's no way that we could work on this. But the truth is, when it actually happens to you,
Brad:
You don't know.
Morgan:
You just don't know. And most of the time, people want to work on it, and most of the time people want to heal and try to rebuild the relationship. Wouldn't you agree?
Brad:
Yeah, they do. And you don't know what you're going to do until it happens to you. One of the things that's important to know about forgiveness, it's not about forgetting or exposing yourself to be hurt again, it's about being able to move forward without living in the past. Truly about healing from the pain is what Forgiveness is an important thing for spouses who've been betrayed by an affair. Forgiving your partner for cheating on you doesn't necessarily mean you have to restore the relationship. It doesn't mean reconciliation. It just means you can let go of your need to punish your spouse for what they did to you. But one of the misconceptions about forgiveness is the false belief that forgiveness is the same as saying everything is okay between us. It's no big deal. I forgive you. Forgiveness is not giving permission for the affair to continue. Injured spouses cannot truly forgive until they're safe from being hurt. Further, forgiveness is something that betrayed spouses do based on their own inner strength, rather than the betrayers
Morgan:
Doing what they've done.
Brad:
Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Rather than the betrayer actions or remorse, it's obviously very hard to forgive when you've repeatedly betrayed and cheated on. And we're going to get into different types of forgiveness. Forgiveness that we're talking about here is really about letting go of the pain and letting go of them hurting you further. But there's another type of forgiveness if you are going to be able to reconcile and try to make things work. It's forgiveness that where you really let that person in. And we're going to talk about that later as well.
Morgan:
So there's two types of forgiveness. One, when that spouse is not around, maybe they left you for another person. And then one part of a different type of forgiveness is when you want to reconcile the relationship.
Brad:
And here's the key difference. One is about letting go of resentment and hurt. You can do that whether you're with them or if you're not with them. And then the second type of forgiveness is it's more than just letting go of the resentment and hurt and the need to punish them. It's about letting yourself be vulnerable and depend on that person. Again, you have to trust them and to trust them, and that's a different type of forgiveness that we're going to discuss as well. How to attain.
Morgan:
So do we want to talk about the myths of
Brad:
Forgiveness
Morgan:
Now? Yeah.
Brad:
Sometimes people falsely believe forgiving means I'm weak. I think kind of like my response to that is really, I think it's actually a sign of strength.
Morgan:
Yeah, definitely.
Brad:
You can let go of the pain of someone betraying you and hurting you, and you think that's weakness. It's a sign of strength and it's a sign of maturity as well.
Morgan:
And then that kind of plays with the idea that people think, well, if I forgive, that means I'm forgetting and I'm condoning. But that's not the case at all. If real forgiveness, the right forgiveness, it's standing up for yourself, but it's also standing up for your relationship. And then it's also, it's fully healing and not necessarily letting that happen again. So the second one, if I don't make her pay for the affair, it will happen again. Speaking of happening again.
Brad:
And that's a common myth that people have. If I don't make my spouse pay for it, they're going to do it again.
Morgan:
So I have to punish them. But actually making the betrayer suffer causes doubt that the relationship can actually recover. Injured spouses need their partners to help them heal and to be there for them. But if they make their betrayal's life difficult, it will be much harder for them to heal and be hopeful that the relationship can recover. So it would be quite discouraging if you're constantly needing to make them pay for it.
Brad:
Oh yeah. Because here's the thing, the one who was involved, sometimes people who have affairs many times are burned out. They have issues with the marriage, why they do this, and understandably, you're upset and you're hurting, you're hurting a great deal. But just to punish them consistently and constantly for it. Lemme say this, there's a difference between questions, asking things and needing them, needing reassurance, and you're needing questions answered and you want to talk about it. I don't look at that as punishing them, but making them crawl on glass, making them do all the sacrifice, all this stuff because they betrayed you. And that may work in the short term, but long term marriage wise, that is a recipe for disaster. And that creates a very hopeless feeling in the person who had the affair because they don't feel like you guys can ever move forward and move past it
Morgan:
And sacrificing. I mean, there's going to be some of that with making sure that they come home early. Oh, sure. Yeah, definitely.
Brad:
To rebuild trust, be transparent and honest. Yeah, that's standard stuff. But I'm talking about this punishing type thing. You're their parent again, and it's kind of this extreme,
Morgan:
You can't have your car. I'm not going to let you have your car.
Brad:
Well, they lose all rights. That just doesn't work, not long term. And understandably, they may go along with that short term, but you can't build a marriage on that. It's not something that you can build a marriage with. There's not equality, there's not respect. It makes it very, very difficult.
Morgan:
Gotcha. You want to do the third one?
Brad:
Yeah. So the third myth is my anger lets him know him or her know they can't hurt me without consequences. And that's important. People think, you know what? I'm getting angry. There's going to be consequences to this. It's actually easier for people to identify the hurts and heal them when they let go of the hurt and hatred. You can actually begin to heal when you let go of that hurt and hatred that creates that anger. And we've often talked about a key component of a fair recovery is having the betrayer there in a nurturing, supportive role. And with unforgiveness and this kind of under unforgiveness where it's resentment and hatred and anger, it really keeps that person distant. We talked about negative cycles. This is a great way to get stuck in a negative cycle.
Morgan:
Anger, yelling, hatred that way, and then the betrayer becomes distant at some point, and then it's this negative round and around cycle. Interesting. And that anger really hurts the person who's been betrayed too, because they're holding onto that. It's kind of eaten them.
Brad:
It does. Yeah, definitely
Morgan:
Does. Okay, so then the next one, forgiving her or him will make them think she didn't hurt me. Injured spouses can articulate the impact of the injury and still be able to get the feelings of hatred out of their system. So that's a myth that forgiving them will make them think they didn't hurt you.
Brad:
And what we're talking about here is you think you're saying, I'm not hurting if you say I forgive you.
Morgan:
And that's not the truth.
Brad:
That's not the truth at all. Right? And there's kind of a pattern here in what we're talking about. There's this theme of punishment. I'm holding this over your head. I'm not letting you go on from this. I'm stuck in the past and I'm going to make you be stuck in the past with me. And that's kind of the theme here. And when that happens, people commonly believe, if I forgive this,
Morgan:
You're
Brad:
Going to forget about my pain and you're going to go on and you're not going to be here with me. And that's false.
Morgan:
And I think a lot of times that would be from kind the misnomer, the incorrect thoughts about forgiveness that, oh, I have to be okay. I have to just not cry because forgiveness means I show no sadness or remorse about what happened because I'm not bothered. I'm forgiven, I forgive them. But that's not it at all. Forgiveness still runs its course. I mean, the pain still runs its course, and you still have to heal from that. So forgiveness doesn't mean that you just, well, I'm not going to cry and everything's fine.
Brad:
Well, forgiveness is a process,
Morgan:
Right?
Brad:
It's not an overnight thing, it's a process. Commonly people look at forgiveness as a light switch. I forgive you. And all of a sudden the resentment's gone. In fact, you're going to have to forgive a lot. You're going to have to forgive every day. Every day. You're going to have to choose to forgive every day, and you're going to have to choose to forgive individual aspects of the affair. You're going to have to forgive about the deception. You're going to have to forgive about any physical involvement, emotional involvement. You're going to have to forgive these specific incidences that happened
Morgan:
Kind of one thing at a time, it seems like. So we talk about forgiveness. Well, we're talking about the myths of surrounding forgiveness.
Brad:
Yeah. Commonly held beliefs that are actually false after an affair. The next one, Morgan number five is forgiveness. Commonly people falsely believe forgiveness means I approve of my spouse's immoral behavior. So people look at forgiveness, meaning approval. But this is important to understand that when spouses are cheated on, they do have a right to condemn that behavior. And at the same time, they need to release ill will towards the involved spouse,
Morgan:
Which takes time.
Brad:
And here's the thing, ill releasing, ill will does not mean automatically letting them back in your life to be hurt again. It just means you're letting yourself go. You're letting yourself off the hook to punish them. And also for spouses who've been betrayed, you can still believe in right and wrong and stand up for yourself without giving in or lowering your guard. That's not what forgiveness means. Forgiveness says, I'm letting go of the resentment, but I'm still keeping my boundaries. I'm not going to let you hurt me again.
Morgan:
And I think it's interesting you say you let yourself off the hook. You don't have to be the judge, jury, and executioner.
Brad:
As we get into this more, we're going to discuss actually how it affects a person physically interesting with unforgiveness, how it affects a person's heart, their immune system. It's really a cancer of the mind, you could say a cancer of the soul. And so these kinds of beliefs, they're very common. They're very popular once people have been betrayed. But here's the kicker,
They actually hold a couple up from being able to recover because like we've talked about before with negative cycles, unforgiveness, let me be careful on how I explain this, because there's different types of unforgiveness. There's the unforgiveness. Like I said earlier, I'm letting go of my resentment and hurt. We have to have that. You need to do that. I'm letting go of my own resentment and hurt and my need to punish you. Again, that's a process that you need to be working towards. And if you're listening to this, and it's been probably in the first two months of discovery, it may be hard to do that. Definitely the closer you are to when you discover it or when you find more deception from your spouse, it'll be very hard to forgive. You need to let go of that resentment, that bitterness, you're really doing it for yourself. And here's the other thing though, Morgan forgiveness, that's not letting that person back in. That's a different type of forgiveness.
Morgan:
The other type of forgiveness,
Brad:
You're talking about being vulnerable,
Morgan:
Being vulnerable,
Brad:
Letting your walls down, letting your guard down with them. We're not saying everybody has to do that. You do want to have that if you're going to have a strong marriage. But I would say regardless of what's happened, you do want to find a place of forgiveness. And it's because you're doing it for yourself. And that'll become more clear as we talk about this.
Morgan:
Gotcha. And the next one, talking about number six, this is very common. People think about this when they think of forgiveness, but one myth, forgiving means forgetting. And many people who experience an affair commonly believe the myth that they have to forget the affair in order to forgive what happened. But forgiveness actually helps them release negative feelings about the affair. Remembering the affair helps them take precautions in the future.
Brad:
That's important.
Morgan:
Yeah,
Brad:
Because you cannot forget something as painful as an affair. You're just not going to, and that's foolish to even think or suggest that you could forget about it,
Morgan:
But it just won't be in your mind all the time pressing for your attention.
Brad:
But what you do need to do is forgive for yourself. Let go of that resentment. It will help you emotionally. It'll help you move on with your life. It'll help you release baggage. It'll help you get out of the negative cycle if you do choose to recover from the affair with your spouse or your partner who had the affair. But one of the things that people commonly think is it should never be brought up again. I've been betrayed. Why can't I quit thinking about this? Why can't I quit talking about it? And that's trauma. Those are trauma symptoms. You obsess about it. You have nightmares about it. You think about it. Your stomach is full of anxiety,
Morgan:
Constantly ask the same questions over and over. And I've heard some people say, well, I can't seem to get over this. I can't seem to stop thinking about it and talking about it and asking questions about it. And my spouse thinks I'm crazy, and they're telling them they're crazy. And
Brad:
That's trauma we've talked about. That's trauma. There's trauma symptoms there,
Morgan:
But they're not crazy. The point
Brad:
Is not, no, they're not crazy. It's like somebody, it's like this Morgan. It's like if we went, me and you went on a safari in Africa, and the guy driving the Jeep on the safari was the only local, the only one that knew how to deal with wild animals. And we get attacked, and he's the only one with a phone that actually gets reception on the safari. So he's dead and the phone's gone. And it's me and you out in the jungle trying to survive. We're going to have symptoms of trauma. We're going to have anxiety. We're going to have difficulty sleeping. We're going to be obsessed about survival. We're going to be hypervigilant looking for any sign of danger and trouble. What's going on When someone's betrayed, they're not crazy. They've just been attacked and their system and their nervous system is on high alert and they're saying, okay, I got to figure out how to survive here. It's just like if we were in the jungle and we got
Morgan:
Attacked by a lion,
Brad:
By attacked by a lion, and we're trying to survive. It's the same symptoms. It's the same survival strategy that our body goes through. Interesting. And that's what happens when someone's betrayed. You're not nuts. You're not crazy. Your body's going through that and you keep asking the same questions because you want to know. That's the dangerous thing is the deception. I've only had one person tell me that the only thing that hurt more than the deception was actually the rejection. And everybody else has said it's the deception that hurts more. That's why the questions are so important is I've got to figure this out. I got to know why this happened. I got to protect myself from this again.
Brad:
And
Brad:
That's like us being in a jungle and trying to survive out in the wilderness when we know there's wild animals out there. It's the same physical thing. It's the same mental reaction. And that's called survival. That's called normal. That's called in a sense, even healthy to have that kind of response. That's your body's taken over and you're trying to protect yourself.
Morgan:
Yeah, definitely. Well, that's fantastic. That's a great way to put that picture in your mind to understand it better. And the next one,
Brad:
This myth says, this is what commonly people say is, if I forgive, I'll have to trust that person again. To a certain extent, that's true. But if I forgive, I'll have to trust that person again,
Morgan:
If you even decide to stay with your spouse.
Brad:
And here's the thing, trust is built over time, but it is really about the RA spouse believing he or she can rely on the betrayer to be there for support. Forgiveness is still something that can be accomplished even if a person is unable to rebuild trust. And that one, I would say part of that's true. I need to differentiate that you need to be able to trust them. If you can be vulnerable with them, if you can get the forgiveness where you can be vulnerable, you're going to have to be able to trust that person. You're going to have to find that you can depend on them to be vulnerable. But if you don't feel like you can trust them, you can't be vulnerable with them opening yourself up for attack. It's like, if I don't trust that lion, it's not going to eat me. I'm going to keep hiding in the safari out in the wilderness.
Morgan:
Well keep a distance.
Brad:
You don't have to be able to trust them to let go of the resentment and the hatred. That type of forgiveness, that's important too. So I want to draw a distinction there,
Morgan:
But to be close again, to have intimacy and to have a close relationship with your spouse, again, trust is going to
Brad:
Yeah, you to have that trust. Yeah. It'll be impossible to open yourself up
Morgan:
And be vulnerable
Brad:
And be vulnerable without trust.
Morgan:
Gotcha. And that does take years sometimes.
Brad:
Well, would you say it depends. It really depends. It depends on a lot of key factors, like the amount of deception, the length of the affair, what the quality of the marriage was before,
Morgan:
How open and honest, right upfront in the beginning.
Brad:
Yeah, how the negative cycles affecting them. Like you said, how open and honest the betrayer is immediately after the affair.
Morgan:
How good of a relationship they had before the affair possibly.
Brad:
Yeah. Yeah. That's a key one. That's a key one.
Morgan:
Okay, so the next one, number eight. The eighth myth. An affair is unforgivable. Okay. Something that needs to be understood about forgiveness is that it really, it's really about the internal state of the injured spouse. The injured spouse has power over the act and the involved spouse because he or she's able to say the affair is disgusting and horrible. Nevertheless, I forgive you, they're in control and not a victim of circumstances. So do you want to unpack that a little bit, Brett?
Brad:
Yeah. Here's the key thing. You as the injured spouse, you have power over the act of the affair because you're not a victim of circumstances.
Morgan:
You have more control and more power than you think. A lot of times you feel so powerless when this has happened to you.
Brad:
Well, you're not a victim, period. Obviously this is a horrible, horrible, disgusting thing. But you're more than that. And to think your life is
Morgan:
A summation of one event,
Brad:
Circumstances. I mean, you're just blown and tossed by the wind if that's all you think. It's a horrible place to live to let your circumstances dictate how you feel. And we all go through that from time to time, especially when big things like this happen. After some of the trauma starts wearing off, you're going to have to start picking yourself up and realizing at a certain point in time, I'm not going to put a timeframe on that. You're going to have to realize I'm more than my circumstances. I'm not going to be a victim of this. I'm in control over this. I'm the maker of my own destiny.
Morgan:
Something you said earlier too, forgiveness is for you just as much as it is for them, if not more.
Brad:
Yeah. It's more for you.
Morgan:
Yeah. It's for you to not let it eat you up inside.
Brad:
Yep. It's you being able to say, I'm moving on past this. Number nine is cheater is all bad and deserving of my resentment. That's very common. This person has no good qualities. Individuals who cheat on their spouse, they're human, they're weak. Many times they're in pain, and often they're not in their right mind. They feel guilty for what they've done. They feel deeply ashamed for what they've done. And here's the important thing with life. Life has a way of punishing people for their mistakes and their sins. Injured spouses. Let me ask you a serious question. Have you ever considered that you don't need to take any responsibility for setting them straight?
Morgan:
Life will do it for 'em. Yeah.
Brad:
Yeah. Life will do it.
Morgan:
Whether it's a venereal disease or just a unhappy,
Brad:
Yeah, because that need to punish life will take care of, we often create our own misfortunes. The 10th myth is getting even will help me get over the affair. That is bull crap. We talked about last time the revenge affair and how people get into affair because they've been betrayed and they're not healing well. That's the key moment of unforgiveness.
Morgan:
It's kind of like, you hurt me, so I'm going to hurt myself too.
Brad:
And that's what people do. They think they're hurting their spouse, but getting even does not replace what has been taken from you. Having your own affair doesn't help you get over the hurt and trauma that you've been experiencing.
And so that's really key. Just quickly talk about what is forgiveness, and basically we're talking about forgiveness in the context of recovering from an affair, recovering from betrayal. And so what we're talking about is really in that context. One of the truths about forgiveness that's not a myth is that forgiveness is really something that people do for themselves, forgiving you up from the anguish and burdens of the past so that the past doesn't intrude into the future. Forgiveness is a choice. It's something that is produced only with intentional effort, something that you have to choose to do. We're going to talk a little bit later about things that keep us from being able to forgive, but it's really a choice. And I do want to say this though, that for people who choose to try to work it out with the one who had the affair, the one who betrayed them, some forgiveness has taken place. We talked about how there's two different types of forgiveness that we're kind of talking about. And I want to differentiate that there's the type of forgiveness that we're mainly talking about right now. That's the forgiveness, that's letting go of the need to punish, letting go of the need for revenge
Brad:
When
Brad:
You've been betrayed and that holds onto that resentment. And you can forgive and let go of that need to punish and the need for revenge. Letting go of that resentment, that bitterness.
Morgan:
Yeah.
Brad:
Because that's
Morgan:
Going to really help
Brad:
You
Morgan:
To heal.
Brad:
Yeah. That's going to help you heal. And you're doing that for yourself.
And then there's a different type of forgiveness. And just for the lack of, I guess the English language, there's another type of forgiveness that we're going to get into later, which is really about letting that person back into your life. And so as we talk about this, I want to be real clear to be able to differentiate those two different types of forgiveness. And what we're talking about in the show right now is the forgiveness where you're letting go of the resentment, the bitterness, the need to punish, the need to punish the need for revenge
Morgan:
So it doesn't eat you alive on the
Brad:
Inside. Yeah. It doesn't eat you alive. And if you have this kind of forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean that you're letting that person back in either or that you can't. And some of that's based on them being that person that you're forgiving being safe. They have to be safe for you to be able to let them back in your life. You can't just be a doormat and say, accept you
Brad:
Blindly.
Brad:
And there's some confusion about that. While I'm on this, I want to talk about another myth about forgiveness that we didn't mention last week is that forgiveness is in a process, not
Morgan:
Just an event.
Brad:
Yeah. It's a process. It's not an event. This process stops and has starts to it in large part. It's based on how much discomfort or pain you're in. When you're in a lot of pain, it's really hard to let go of anger, resentment, and bitterness. And it's also hard, of course, to let that person in.
Morgan:
So it's not like a one time event where you're just like, no, it's not like, oh, today you hurt me. Tomorrow I have forgiven and I'm now okay. And
Brad:
It's not like that. Yeah, it's not like that at all. And here's something I want to say about this too, is when people have been betrayed, like this amount of pain is so hurtful. It's pretty intense. It's very intense. Sometimes people clinging to their resentment and their bitterness and these hard feelings as a way to really protect themselves. They get angry as a way to have boundaries and enforce those boundaries. And forgiving is a process that's going to have to happen multiple times. You're going to have to let go of that resentment multiple times. I had a couple in my office recently, and the husband was saying, well, you forgave me. Why are you talking about the affair? Why are you bringing it up? You already forgave me. What he doesn't understand is it's going to come up a lot. This is such a hurtful thing. There still has to be healing. And that doesn't mean there isn't
Morgan:
Forgiveness
Brad:
And he doesn't understand forgiveness and he doesn't understand the process either of healing from this kind of thing. And one of the things I do want to say about this quickly is with forgiveness, I want to be real clear on this, is when you do forgive, there has to be safety there. There has to be security there
Morgan:
Knowing that the affair won't happen again
Brad:
Or it's hard to let go of that anger and that bitterness. And it's really hard to do, honestly. It's really hard to forgive early on immediately after discovery. It's hard for most people. Some people will say, I forgive you and let it go. Other people are going to have a much harder time because they're in so much pain themselves. And to kind of get to that ultimate forgiveness where you're really able to let the anger and the resentment and the bitterness go, you're looking at being out of the negative cycle, getting out of that when you talk about the affair, some healing has to take place for you to really let go of all of that.
Morgan:
And sometimes that is talking about it, right? Just depends on the person and kind of the situation
Brad:
Depends on a lot of different factors. But forgiveness is a choice and it's made easier to accomplish when you have the person who has betrayed you, who's there, and they're remorseful and they're trying to help you heal. And one of the things too, Morgan, I just want to mention is forgiveness is a process where some people will go to church or leave counseling and they'll say, I'm going to forgive. And they make a decision to really forgive and they feel better about it. But then something happens and they get reminded of again, or they feel like their spouse isn't being honest again, and the pain comes back and resentment comes back, the anger comes back and they have to work through it again.
Morgan:
And sometimes they feel discouraged about that, but don't feel discouraged if that's a process, because yes, it's a process.
Brad:
It's a process that has mountains and valleys to it, kind of waves that come in and out,
Morgan:
Good days and bad
Brad:
Days. And that's how the process is. And just know this, that if you're working through this with your spouse, chances are that they have probably started that process of forgiving you, just the fact that they're listening to this program with you or going to counseling with you
Morgan:
If you're talking to the betrayer, right?
Brad:
Yeah. Right. So just wanted to say all that. Part of this is when the betrayed spouse feels safe and secure and that the affair won't happen again, they begin to let go of the need to punish or seek revenge. They begin to let go of that bitterness on the one who had the affair. They let go of that need to punish because the bleeding has stopped and the healing can begin, and they don't want to have to punish. And some of that is stuff that they do to protect themselves. That's why it's hard to be vulnerable with that person when you feel like you have to protect yourself. And so for a couple to heal, the injured spouse needs to see that remorse from the spouse who had the affair. And that's hard to give when you're caught in a negative cycle, when you're fighting and arguing, they really need to see your tears, your shame, your guilt, your disappointment in yourself, even if you don't like yourself, you hate yourself for what you did. Those are things that people tend to hide and shy away from because there's so much shame there. But they really need to see your remorse. They need to see that you're in pain so they can begin to heal.
Morgan:
Can you briefly give just what a typical negative cycle would look like for a couple? Yeah.
Brad:
I'll remind couples betrayed. Yeah. Typically the one who has been betrayed their primary emotion when they've been betrayed. Obviously there's sadness there. There's feelings of inadequacy, but I would say it's probably fear. It's almost how do I know this won't happen again? And so everything they're doing is meant to protect themselves from getting hurt further. And that could be being obsessive questioning, lack of sleep. It's all this, it's almost like, and I've talked about this before with people in our office, couples in our office. It's like if you had gone on a safari and it's just you as a couple and then the driver, and he's the only one that has a phone that gets reception, he's got a satellite phone and he gets attacked by a wild animal, a wild lion.
And it's just you and your spouse that are left to survive and you don't know where you're at and you're miles away from any civilization or help, you're going to have symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder. And that's what the person who's been betrayed has. They have the obsessiveness. They're not sleeping very well, they're running through things in their head. They're very hypervigilant, they're very alert. They use anger as a way to make themselves feel more powerful, to take control of a desperate hard situation. And those are the same things like being stranded in the wild, fearing death that happens when someone's been betrayed. They're fearing the pain of betrayal again. So they're doing those things to protect themselves.
Morgan:
So while that portrayed partner is hypervigilant, obsessive thoughts, obsessive questions that causes the betrayer to do what?
Brad:
Yeah. And see, part of that is it causes the betrayer to shut down. And they start to think, well, crud, I don't want to make this worse. I don't want to do things to make this harder on myself or harder on them. I just want us to be able to put this behind us. And so they start to do things that minimize where the betrayed spouse is coming from. And they're also really afraid and they're also very sad,
Brad:
But
Brad:
They're also very shameful. And so they want to forget about it. They don't want to discuss it anymore. And those are some things that really keep couples from being able to work through it is that shame that's there. The action tendency with shame is
Morgan:
Pull
Brad:
Away, pull away to withdraw, to hide
Morgan:
Maybe to get a little depressed about it, feel bad about themselves in the situation,
Brad:
Hopelessness. They feel hopeless. They want to get away from it. And part of that, what happens is, is they feel so horrible and they feel so bad that they begin to no longer talk about it. They no longer show any emotion about it. Sometimes they leave, sometimes they leave. If they're very, very, very shameful, feel very guilty, they'll hide. They'll leave.
Morgan:
They might say, you don't deserve what I've done to you. Things like that.
Brad:
Yeah, they do. Their shame is really, yeah, they feel very hopeless as well.
Morgan:
But
Brad:
What happens is with this negative cycle is it makes it hard. You get stuck in gridlock. You almost get into what's been called absorbing emotional states. That's rigid patterns of interaction. It's almost like it's this very robotic, almost predictable interactions. Nothing can change. It can influence until you begin to talk about some of these deeper emotions that are there.
Morgan:
So when we talk about this negative cycle that people get into,
Our goal is to change this dance. It's a dance that whenever you go into when you've been betrayed or you are the betrayer, it's just this pattern, this cycle that happens. And so when he says negative cycles, he's talking about beginning to, for the betrayer to start to engage and be open and honest and forthright and to know what to expect. They're going to probably have obsessive questions and thoughts. And so to have an idea that that's what's going to happen, possibly, that they can feel more confident and open to be able to discuss the affair. And so then that betrayed partner who has just these obsessive thoughts and hypervigilance, maybe they're able to put down their weapons for a little bit to break out of this negative cycle. And so as people are educated about what's happening and what's going on, it's going to make this process of forgiveness a lot easier. Is that basically what we're saying? Yeah,
Brad:
I'm saying that, but one of the key components, and this is unfortunately for my research of reading into affairs, in my opinion, there's not really a lot that's done to address negative cycles. You can read it a million books, but nobody really talks about the negative cycle that couples get into that led to this. And that happens when people are discussing it. You'll get information about limit your time talking about it, and that's helpful. They will give you information on how to talk about it, but they don't really ever discuss the negative cycle that happens around it. Because if you don't deal with that negative cycle that happens around discussing an affair, you're not going to make very much progress in healing. And so some of these things that we're talking about, we're talking about the need to be honest, the need to be transparent, the need to be loving and supportive, and to have goodwill and to do these things. And we're talking about right now forgiveness. That's hard when you get caught in that negative cycle
Morgan:
And the negative patterns of communicating about it and viewing it and seeing it
Brad:
And
Morgan:
Discussing it, feeling about
Brad:
It. And so lemme just say this, getting out of that negative cycle there is obviously seeing a counselor who knows what they're doing, who knows what they're doing that works with affairs, that's a good start, but also a counselor that works within the framework of emotionally focused couples therapy. Where we live, we practice here in Tulsa. I'll say this, I don't know how many people actually use that theory. There's only three people in Tulsa that I'm aware of that have advanced training and they all work in our office. And so what we're doing is it's really revolutionary. We're using the best methods. We group practice that just focuses on this, but not just we focus on marriage counseling. We're using the best method. That's actually empirically validated by research. There's other leading methods within marriage counseling that I'll say some names, Imago Gottman. Gottman has research behind his, but it hasn't been proven to work
Morgan:
And actually helped people in
Brad:
Conflict. He hasn't released any studies on it. And that's a shame because he's a marital researcher
And he's had his theory around for at least 10 years, maybe 15 years or longer, emotionally focused couples therapy has dozens of studies done on it. And one of the things about it is couples move from distress to closeness in about five month period, 75% of them and within five months have moved from distress, horrible place to a place of intimacy. But anyway, you got to deal with the negative cycle. If you have a therapist that works with emotionally focused couples therapy, if you're listening to this and Tulsa, if you're listening to this somewhere else, find somebody that uses emotionally focused couples therapy, they're going to help you deal with that negative cycle you get into,
Morgan:
You're
Brad:
Going to get better care, that you're going to get better care. I want to wrap up talking about what is forgiveness first? Go ahead. I want to finish that. We kind of got sidetracked on the negative cycle, which was important because it's important. Not everybody kind of was able to listen to our show on a regular basis. So sometimes we don't always come back to other topics. But for a couple to heal, I want to repeat this. The injured spouse needs to see the remorse of the spouse who had the affair and negative cycles keep couples from being able to have that kind of emotion and remorse. I would say in my work, maybe one out of 20 actually kind of do everything the way I would like 'em to do it. So they really need guidance. They really need help. When the spouse who's been betrayed, the injured spouse sees that their partner is living with the guilt and shame for what they did, they're living in that pain. Only then can forgiveness begin to take place.
Morgan:
And I really think it's because when that person who's betrayed their spouse feels that pain and emotion, then it's almost like the person who's been betrayed is able to relate with them better because they know each other's pain and the hurt that's behind
Brad:
It. Well, it's of like they're safe again. You get me. It's like you see this lion get me. You figure out the lion's a vegetarian and you're out in the wilderness again. And you realize, okay, he's a vegetarian. He doesn't like human. Then you feel safe walking around the lion. He likes plants. You might not come up and pet the lion or anything like that, but you're not going to be scared of the lion. And so when you see that pain, that remorse, and here's the key, you need to see that they're hurting
Morgan:
Because
Brad:
They hurt me.
Morgan:
They're
Brad:
Not hurting because the affair is over.
Morgan:
That's right.
Brad:
Big. That's a big point. And that's really important. They're hurting because they hurt me. Not that the affair, they lost the affair partner or because they're disgrace. They got caught. Yeah, they got caught or they're in disgrace or that kind of thing.
Brad:
You
Brad:
Need to see that they're hurting because they hurt me and they care about me. And once that happens, and once it's not just in a one-time event, it can be, but usually it needs to take place more often because there needs to be a lot of reassurance. So the one who's been hurt needs to see that.
Brad:
And
Brad:
This is also an important factor, why the negative cycle needs to be looked at and examined many times before couples kind of delve into the affair recovery process. And I say that because you get caught in that negative cycle. You can't do this,
Brad:
You
Brad:
Can't heal, you can't do this. And many times, honestly, there's factors where people have affairs, there's things that go into that. And we've talked about how
Morgan:
Kind of the reasons behind it,
Brad:
How affairs start. And in the beginning, the person who had the affair may have a hard time showing their pain. We spent a couple of weeks on talking about the 10 different types of affairs, and we talked about how sometimes they overlap. And one of the key themes that overlaps in these affairs is typically the person who has an affair. They're very burned out. They're very vulnerable
Morgan:
To
Brad:
An affair.
Morgan:
The boundaries are lower,
Brad:
Their boundaries are lower. They kind of feel hurt themselves. The negative cycles really beat them up.
Morgan:
They
Brad:
Feel hurt themselves, they feel ignored. They're feeling their own resentment. They're feeling alone. They feel kind of numb,
Morgan:
Disconnected from their spouse, disconnected
Brad:
From their spouse. And what happens is, is they start to care less about the marriage. And for many people, it's a wake up call, oh my gosh, I really do matter. They really do love me. I see how much they're hurting. And so you may not get this instantaneous, oh, I'm begging for mercy kind of thing. But eventually, once you kind of work through things, they're going to be able to get to that place and show that vulnerability. It's there many times it's there, but you may need that in the beginning. And with the negative cycle keeps 'em from being able to do that. That's why you need
Morgan:
Help. Would you like me to go ahead and do benefits of forgiveness?
Brad:
Yeah, go ahead, Morgan.
Morgan:
So letting go of resentment, hatred, bitterness, and desires for revenge is a way to come to peace with the past. So that's a lot of what we're talking about here, just letting it go of those things that kind of eat you up inside. The first step in the process of forgiveness is realizing that no offense against you is worth destroying your peace of mind. When individuals forgive, they take responsibility for their happiness. That no longer depends on the betrayer to make them happy so they don't depend on outside forces to make them happy. And you really can have that peace of mind. You really can come to that place where you're stronger. And so that's what we're talking about. Those are the main benefits of forgiveness. You want to add anything to that?
Brad:
Yeah. I would say many people might've heard of Viktor Frankl.
Morgan:
Oh yeah. He
Brad:
Wrote Man's Search for Meaning. He's a Holocaust survivor. And one of the things you said, Morgan, it's really important. That reminds me of what he said.
Brad:
You
Brad:
Said, I'm kind of paraphrasing what you said, but you said forgiveness is a process of realizing that no offense against you is worth destroying your peace of mind.
Brad:
Yeah,
Brad:
Absolutely. And that's kind of what Viktor Frankl's book Man Search for Meaning was about. Basically, no one can steal your attitude but yourself. No one can steal your happiness, but yourself.
Morgan:
He was a Holocaust survivor, and he chose not to have bitterness towards what happened to him.
Brad:
He chose to keep his attitude. That was the last thing someone can take from you is your own attitude, your internal sense of happiness. And so he was able to control that. Morgan, I want to move on to false forgiveness.
Brad:
Okay,
Morgan:
Good.
Brad:
And this is important. Let me just explain what I mean by false forgiveness. False forgiveness. This is something that occurs when both partners want to move on and they avoid having a confrontation about the affair. They just kind of rather
Morgan:
Just gloss over it
Brad:
And talks about it. Yeah, gloss over it.
Morgan:
They
Brad:
Have this, they avoid things kind of mentality. Pretend
Morgan:
It didn't happen,
Brad:
Just
Morgan:
Pretending,
Brad:
Just tell me it's not going to happen. We'll sweep it under the rug together. And so there's a false forgiveness. The affair happened. And so rushing forward for that is a way to stay in denial about what has really happened and the pain that it's caused.
Morgan:
So nothing gets resolved, really. The issues before don't get resolved. The issue of the pain doesn't get resolved and going forward, it's just
Brad:
Yeah, exactly. And so when this forgiveness is rushed or hurried because it's the right thing to do, unquote, that can lead to deep resentment later. When people do
Morgan:
That, they can't be close, right?
Brad:
No, they can't be close. Very hard to be into it. Yeah, it's very hard. And usually when that happens, that's because the betrayer is pushing for it. Just forgive me. Forgive me. And the one who has been betrayed, the injured spouse, from my experience, they typically go along with it because they're more fearful about losing that person. Just their presence and connection. They need them. And so they'll kind of whatever, I don't want to push 'em away. And they typically don't stay in counseling very long. So that can lead to deep resentment later because they're having to eat it stuff, it sweep it on the rug, and that's not something they typically want to do. And it is a sad fact that some people actually think about their spouse's reaction when debating an affair. Some people will have an affair and they'll think about how their spouse is going to react, and they're weighing the pros and cons as they do it. And if they feel like their spouse will quickly forgive them, they'll falsely believe, oh, well, it's a little bit of punishment for the thrill of a lifetime.
Morgan:
Oh my gosh,
Brad:
It's going to be a couple of weeks. I'm having my one night stand, or my fun or this or that. I know my spouse is a pushover.
Morgan:
Oh, that's horrible.
Brad:
And these are typically people who do that are pretty narcissistic, self-centered people, that kind of false. It can promote a pattern of cheating like that. It just reinforces someone who's really self-centered.
Morgan:
Narcissistic. We've been talking about forgiveness in the context of infidelity, right, Brad? And today we're going to talk about why can't you forgive me, right?
Brad:
Yeah. We're going to talk about common reasons why forgiveness has not happened yet. Last week's show, we talked about exactly what is forgiveness, and we talked about how people benefit from forgiving. There's health benefits we didn't really get into, but obviously peace of mind is one of those. And we talked about the dangers of false forgiveness, how you forgive somebody when you forgive. You don't always, if you have false forgiveness, you're kind of letting that person off the hook
Morgan:
Without healing from it,
Brad:
Without healing, and without them doing the necessary steps to help you heal.
Morgan:
We also talked about two different types of forgiveness.
Brad:
There's a type of forgiveness that is about letting that person back in because you find them safe and trustworthy. And that way when you feel like they're safe and trustworthy, you can lean on 'em and become emotionally vulnerable. And then there's another type of forgiveness. It's more about for yourself, it's more about letting yourself off the hook. You're letting go of that need to punish. You're letting go of your own resentment and bitterness. Hatred and hatred, typically, you can't let that person in unless you have forgiven them. And you're letting go of your own anger, your own bitterness and your own resentment. And typically, so if you don't have that, you haven't forgiven them and letting go of your need to punish and for revenge.
Morgan:
If
Brad:
You haven't let go of that,
Morgan:
It's very hard to move that other to that type. It's very hard
Brad:
To move to that other type of forgiveness. And then the week before that, we talked about myths of forgiveness. Sometimes forgiving means forgetting. Sometimes people falsely believe, well, if I forgive, that means I'm approving of their immoral behavior. It'll make 'em think they can do it again. They can do it again. They didn't have an impact on me. It means I'm weak if I
Morgan:
Forgive. And those of course are myths because it's really actually a show of strength to be able to move through this pain
Brad:
And forgiveness is a process too. So that's kind of what we talked about. And let's talk about why people get stuck in their inability to forgive. Basically something that people talk about is why can't you forgive me? There are difficulties that spouses who've been betrayed have when it comes to moving away from the bitterness towards an attitude of forgiveness and understanding forgiveness with a couple. There needs to be mutual empathy. Both spouses need to feel compassion from each other, and both must ask for forgiveness for the part they played in the marital problems they had in the past. Many times a spouse's ability to forgive is based on their partner's genuine efforts to make amends.
Brad:
And
Brad:
So you got to feel like that person is there as a healer. And again, this is when you get stuck in that negative cycle that we've talked about numerous times. It makes it really hard to let go. Yeah, definitely make amends. And so common reasons why forgiveness hasn't happened yet. And I would say the first is as long as the injured spouse believes that they are a victim, and life has been ruined, their life has been ruined by the affair, forgiveness will be impossible to give.
Morgan:
It's living in that self pity. But it seems just so hard to do. I mean, that's one of those things that, I mean, your life has been turned upside down.
Brad:
Yeah. Well, Morgan, that goes back to what you said last week, I think is so key. You said the first step in the process of forgiveness is realizing that no offense against you
Morgan:
Is
Brad:
Worth destroying your peace of mind.
Morgan:
It's true. And the Victor Frankl
Brad:
Quote, yeah, Victor Frankl, that's really important because a common reason people can't forgive is they think their life is over. They don't realize that they can rebuild. They haven't seen other people rebuild or they don't know enough people that have couples that have been able to move on.
Morgan:
And you have more strength than you think. Sometimes it feels just impossible. But the truth is that you have more power in the situation than you truly believe you do. The second common reason why forgiveness hasn't happened yet is if injured spouses believe that the affair is still happening, they just can't forgive because they don't feel safe and they can't let their guard down. I mean, gosh, if it's still happening, how can you move forward if they're still having an affair?
Brad:
Yeah. I mean, you can forgive. I forgive you. It's my duty to forgive you as a Christian. I need to forgive you as a person. So I forgive you when you're seeking God's help, but to let that person back in. I mean, there's really very, very little chance you can be vulnerable with someone when you feel like they're still hurting you. Your tendency when we're hurting is to start protecting ourself.
Morgan:
Yeah. It also feels like, well, maybe they aren't fully remorseful. I mean, they're still doing what they should not be doing if they really want to make this work. Does that make
Brad:
Sense? Yeah. Another common reason why people can't forgive or it hasn't happened yet, even though the affair could be over, the spouse who's been betrayed, they feel like there's been no precautions taken to protect the marriage against future infidelity. So they feel unable to let their walls down because they feel vulnerable to know their fear happening. There's a key theme here, why forgiveness hasn't taken place yet. And that theme is there isn't enough safety there. And so people need to feel safe for them to let go of that resentment, that bitterness, that revenge, the need to punish. Because when people haven't forgiven so way to protect themselves, that hurt is there as a way to take action against being hurt again.
Morgan:
So some of what this might be saying, precautions haven't been taken yet, or maybe they're still working at the job with the person that they cheated with.
Brad:
Yeah, that's a big one.
Morgan:
They're still on the computer late at night when they know that's what led to their problems before. So they're still stuck.
Brad:
They're still keeping secrets. They're still not being honest. They're still not being transparent. They still have a password that their spouse doesn't know on their phone or computer, things like that. And that makes it harder to let go and to be vulnerable and to let go of the hurt and the pain because that person isn't there for you. And honestly, you're going to stay stuck in a negative cycle longer.
Morgan:
Absolutely.
Brad:
Because you're hurting and you don't feel like that person is there for you. Kind of like I mentioned earlier, for there to be forgiveness, you need to have mutual empathy. You need to feel compassion. You need to feel like that person is there making genuine efforts to make amends. And if you don't have that, you get stuck. That negative cycle keeps you stuck and being unable to have forgiveness.
Morgan:
Yeah, those feelings of empathy are backed up by action. The fourth one here, common reasons why forgiveness hasn't happened. If the affair is unquestionably over and the involved spouse has made genuine effort to heal his or her injured spouse, the injured spouse may be experiencing pain from the past that has been reawakened by the betrayal. Injured spouses. Ask yourself, if this is further evidence that the world is unfair, were you treated unfairly by family members or in a previous relationship? Is there a history of sexual abuse or deep wounds from a parent bullying in school? Possibly unshakable doubts about self-worth or other issues that may be contributing to your feelings. So is there something from the past, maybe this is brought up,
Brad:
And obviously affairs make someone very insecure and they can hit on other insecurities. But I do want to caution though, some people are hearing this, that their spouse, they're the ones who had the affair and they're jumping up and down saying, yes, yes. I'm glad they said that because my spouse has this. I want to be quick to just kind of jump in and say this. And you need to be really supportive and really careful about pointing out your spouse's insecurities because they may have that, but you need to be sensitive about it as well. They may be thinking, no, it's not the stuff from the past, it's what you did because you're not there. It could go either way. And you need to help with a trained therapist who's worked through this to help you sort through some of that stuff.
Morgan:
And we need to be very careful not to place blame on the injured spouse.
Brad:
Yeah. That can be retraumatizing itself.
Morgan:
Absolutely.
Brad:
Oh no, you're not hurting because I just kicked you in the shin. You're hurting because when you're a kid, you tripped and kicked your shin. You just got to be careful. And that's where the help of a therapist can come in.
Morgan:
Yeah. Qualified, trained,
Brad:
Experienced
Morgan:
Therapist.
Brad:
Yeah. Therapist with experience, not just anybody. Another thing is another common reason why people get stuck in being unable to heal from an affair. Honestly, it's because some people like the pain.
Brad:
It's
Brad:
Almost like they get addicted to it. They keep picking at an open wound and never let wound heal. Many people pass through this on their way towards healing, but some find themselves stuck here. Some people can just kind of get to healing forgiveness quickly, and it's genuine and they're healing from it. But some people get stuck here and I'm talking about they can be stuck here for a long time, like a year
Brad:
At
Brad:
Least a full year later, and they're still stuck in it. And that can be because their spouse, like we've said before, and there's a lot of factors that go into this. Let me be careful. I don't want to just say, if you're a year after this and you haven't made any progress and you're still hurting and obsessing about it
Morgan:
Doesn't necessarily mean you
Brad:
Like the pain. Mean you like the pain. It may mean your spouse isn't helping you. It may mean you're still stuck in a negative
Morgan:
Cycle. It may mean that there is trauma that needs to be handled
Brad:
From
Morgan:
The past,
Brad:
And that can be part of it. But another part of it is sometimes people like the pain. They like the attention, they like the pain. And that can be a form of manipulation. And lemme say this though, in my experience, the one that you just mentioned a moment ago, and the one I'm talking about now, that happens, but it's not super common.
Morgan:
This one here that we're talking
Brad:
About. Yeah, the one I'm talking about here and the one that you just mentioned about maybe issues from the past, those aren't super common,
But many people find themselves stuck here where they like the pain, they like the benefits of that pain. Other people give 'em attention, support. Their spouse has been over backwards, backwards. They like being able to have that control. I've only had probably one person that really has taken this to an extreme level. And so this isn't super common, but the bottom line with this kind of roadblock is that the injured spouse, they feel like if they do forgive, the spouse who had the affair will be off the hook and free from blame and they're going to get off too easily. But let me say this, it should be noted because if the one who's been betrayed isn't able to move forward from this deep emotional pain and they're living in bitterness, they may actually drive the involved spouse, A spouse who had the affair into the arms of someone else. Again, they just kind of feel hopeless. Crud, we're here, we're stuck. Or they may just decide they don't want to be with you anymore. So I wish there was more time we could spend on that one. But one of the things with this, lemme just, I want to kind of wrap that up as best I can.
Sometimes people like the pain, they don't know how to deal with the pain. Many people dunno how to deal with it, but the ones who like it, they kind of get addicted to dealing with it. Those feelings, that's rare. I mean, this isn't like every person that gets stuck in it. That's pretty rare, I would say.
Morgan:
Gotcha, gotcha. Well, the sixth one that we are talking about, why forgiveness hasn't happened yet spouses who are caught up in their own hurt are not able to see the affair from their husband or wife's point of view. So part of the process of achieving forgiveness for injured spouses is being able to give up the role of the victim and see things through their partner's eyes. So that empathy there, when the pain is still fresh, it is very easy for them to be absorbed in their own injury and not be able to forgive, have compassion or understanding. And it is quite hard because you are nursing your own wounds to be able to see through your spouse's eyes. But it's very important
Brad:
To
Morgan:
Get to that point.
Brad:
And what you just said there is really important. There are still hurting so deeply and so much that they can't. It's almost like you're in so much pain yourself, and this is what couples experience, not just with infidelity, but in our office, when they get caught in that negative cycle, they're experiencing so much pain themselves that it's really hard for them to know or see where their spouse is coming from. And that's really important with being able to get out of that negative cycle. The negative cycle is such an important part of the recovery process. Dealing with that, moving forward with it, it's really, really important. Honestly, that's where marriage counseling comes into play, helping you deal with that negative cycle,
Morgan:
Kind of see the forest from the trees.
Brad:
It's
Morgan:
Very easy to get stuck in the jungle, but being able to see it from the treetops,
Brad:
Well, yeah, you're hurting so much. It's kind of like when you're depressed, times where I've been depressed or people are just this way, when you're depressed, you tend to be thinking about your own situation, what's causing you to be depressed, how the sky is falling in your world, and you don't really think about other people how they're affected and involved. That's sometimes why if you go help someone else who's hurting or suffering, you're going to feel better about your situation. You're just going to feel better, period. And so that's kind of how this pain works. It causes us to turn inward focus on ourselves because we're in a crisis and it's psychologically what we do just to get out of this mess is we become really?
Morgan:
Yeah, but truly it digs you down deeper into it. So stepping out of that and trying to be others focused or outwardly focused have a little empathy. It's going to really help the forgiveness process. So what's next? Questions
Brad:
To off? Yeah, we're going to talk about questions really to ask yourself, are you willing to forgive? How willing are you to do this? Because some people say, oh yeah, I want to forgive and this and that, but they get stuck in it. So here's some questions to ask yourself on how willing you are to forgive. Question one is, was your spouse trying to intentionally hurt you personally or was this behavior a reflection of their own emptiness? So were they trying to hurt you personally or is this a reflection of their own emptiness? Can you make allowances for your spouse's past? I think that's a really good thing to stop and think about. Is this personal or is this them acting out of their own hurt because they're empty and their unhappy in life? Are they doing this to try to intentionally hurt me or are they trying to do it because they're feeling empty?
Morgan:
But I wonder if that person really is trying to be mean and how do you sort through that?
Brad:
Well, to be honest with you, I think that that happens. But my experience that's rare with affairs, it's usually because they're empty, they're burned out, and maybe they do one out of the marriage, but it's not like they're trying to punish their spouse by having an affair. It's not something they generally do. They know their spouse finds out, that's why they're deceptive. They lie about it, they're going to be unhappy, but they're doing that more because they don't want to rock the boat. Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. Not like if they wanted their spouse to know one really hurt them personally, they would be much more honest about it, why it's going on. True. That's true.
Morgan:
Very true.
Brad:
So it's more about their own emptiness.
Morgan:
That's a good point,
Brad:
Yeah.
Morgan:
Got it. Well, that second one is do you want to only condemn your spouse's affair and not your spouse?
Brad:
Yeah. And that's important, Morgan, what you said on how to sort out how willing you are to forgive. Are you only wanting to condemn the affair or are you trying to condemn your spouse? And there's a difference
Morgan:
As a person.
Brad:
Yeah, you're condemning a person. Are you condemning a person or a behavior? And sometimes that line is hard to distinguish, especially when there's a lot of pain in the beginning and couples are caught in that negative cycle. Do you want to give up your ill will towards your spouse? Do you really want to be able to let go and move on? How willing are you to give up that ill will? I know when I was betrayed, I wanted to do anything to get rid of it. The pain at least. And the pain is closely related to that, ill will because when you don't feel any pain anymore, you can begin to let it go. You can begin to fade.
Morgan:
And the next one, do you want to shift your focus away from the affair towards the positives in life? That's a question to sort out whether you're willing to forgive. Do you want to focus on the positives or do you want to focus on the affair?
Brad:
Yeah, and that's a good one. Again, this is hard to do in the beginning, and I'm afraid that people who are listening to this and they hear us talking about that depends on where you're at in the process. The first 90 days are the toughest, the toughest. And if you're listening to this and you're involved in the first 90 days, maybe even the first six months, and you're saying, Hey, he just said right there on the radio that you got to start thinking of being positive, that's going to be hard to do. There's a lot of factors you need to think about. Am I doing what I need to be doing to help my spouse heal? And you probably need to be in counseling. Am I doing what I need to do to help my spouse
Morgan:
Heal or myself to heal
Brad:
Or myself to heal? Focus on yourself, listen to your spouse, try to do all that, but work through the negative cycle. And so many times the one who had the affair is like, Hey, be positive. They really minimize where their spouse is coming from and honestly, it's really stupid.
Morgan:
Yeah, it's not helpful at all. The next one, do you want to trust your spouse again? Do you want to trust your spouse? Ultimately, if this all goes well and you could have complete healing and this great relationship, do you want to let them back in? Do you want to trust them? I think that's a good question.
Brad:
And that shows a willingness of how willing you are to forgive. Do you want to trust them again? I think that's a great question on the barometer of how willing you are to forgive is do you want to trust them again? And do you want to give up hurting and hating them?
Brad:
Do
Brad:
You want to give up your own hurt and do you want to give up your own hating them? That's an important question to ask yourself on how willing you are to forgive.
Morgan:
And I think a lot of people that comes in the form of, I don't want to hurt anymore. I just don't want to have this crushing feeling anymore. I think that's a good way to know if you want to give up the hurt.
Brad:
And Morgan, I just want to kind of briefly go over this. We're coming up on time, but I want to go over a common question that people have. How do I know I won't be betrayed
Morgan:
Again? Oh, yes, that's a great question.
Brad:
Yeah, it's a fantastic question because this is something that I hear often and I mentioned, I referenced that in our last show. Even when relationships are moving forward after an affair and it's doing better than expected,
Brad:
The
Brad:
Injured spouse typically has a common question that I hear in my office, and that is, how do I know I won't be betrayed again? How do I know I won't be cheated on again, this checklist I'm going to give you guys, this is really important as far as giving you peace of mind about how likely another fair is to happen again.
Brad:
Okay,
Brad:
And so the first is, do both of you understand appropriate boundaries concerning friendships of the opposite sex?
Morgan:
Oh, that's so important.
Brad:
It's
Morgan:
Crucial.
Brad:
It's crucial because it's hard. Well, it's crucial, at least for many times people have affairs. They just violate some of the most basic boundaries. I mean, just things that I consider common sense,
Morgan:
Just talking too much, too long, giving information to the other person that maybe your spouse doesn't even know. Sharing personal feelings about even the smallest things sometimes.
Brad:
Yeah, we've had numerous people just go to music events with someone who wasn't their spouse. It's like a coworker or a friend. I'm like, are you serious?
Brad:
Yeah.
Brad:
And so it's just silly, but understanding appropriate boundaries also helps in the healing process. Another is, are you both committed to being honest about attractions to the opposite sex and to everything related to your relationship? That doesn't mean that you're going to go have an affair if you're attracted to someone else, but at least you need to be honest about some of these attractions because that helps prevent any acting out. It takes away the fantasy element if you discuss that with your spouse. It
Morgan:
Brings reality to it for sure. And definitely that secret, that small little secret thought that happened in the day that sure does grow sometimes and it can lead to something. So I'll do the next one.
Brad:
Yeah, go ahead.
Morgan:
You both have friends who are a hundred percent supportive of your marriage. I think this is so important because people will say, I just want you to be happy he's done this or she's done this to you. Let's go to the bar and drink it up and we'll just forget that
Brad:
They
Morgan:
Ever existed and that's just not,
Brad:
And the other thing about that is commonly talking about marital problems with friends and family. I wouldn't say it's a leading cause of divorce, but it's a factor that contributes to divorce
Brad:
That's
Brad:
Not really always considered. I wouldn't say it's a leading cause, like money issues or sex issues or things like that, but it's a factor that influences people to start thinking, well, my parents don't like him. My parents don't like her,
Morgan:
And my mom is constantly talking about
Brad:
My friend. How
Morgan:
Horrible.
Brad:
Yeah, you only get one side of the story. So you want to have friends and family who are a hundred percent supportive of the marriage that you go to for marital problems. For the sake of time, I'm just going to go through the next few of these. You both have the same understanding of what commitment and faithfulness means
Morgan:
Being on the same page.
Brad:
Yeah. You both agree on what monogamy is. You both agree on what an emotional affair
Morgan:
Is and what's okay and what's not.
Brad:
That's important because a lot of people just disagree on what an affair is. They don't understand that there's different warning signs or different types of affairs, emotional affairs. Some people think it's only intercourse. Some people think it's other types of sex is
Morgan:
Okay. Some people think pornography is okay when it's just not.
Brad:
So you both have the same understanding of what commitment and faithfulness means. Obviously that's something you want to talk about before you get married. And so anyway, the next one is you talk to your spouse about vulnerabilities and warning signs without either one of you being defensive. You can talk about vulnerabilities, warning signs without people becoming defensive.
Morgan:
So glad that you were honest and telling me that you felt that way, that kind of thing. You acknowledge and are working on problems in the marriage that could weaken your
Brad:
Commitment. Yeah. You're acknowledging and working on those things that are issues that are factors that hurt the marriage, and that's so important. You show that you care about each other even in little things. That's so important. Doing the dishes, doing the dishes, doing the laundry, cleaning the cats, litter box.
Morgan:
Those are things that are on his honey-do list. And the last one, you have made your spouse a priority over everyone else that's important.
Brad:
And Morgan, I would even add, and this is a key one, you're out of the negative cycle. You're out of the negative cycle. That's so important
Morgan:
And that's how you'll know that the betrayal won't happen again or very likely,
Brad:
And you feel more emotionally secure with each other. You feel like there's dependability there, the emotional connection is there. Those are all things that are important that you consider
Morgan:
Safety. Safety in the relationship.
Brad:
The second type of forgiveness that we're going to focus on is forgiving to let that person back in.
Morgan:
And the first one was about letting
Brad:
Go of resentment, revenge, hurt, anger, bitterness, things like that.
Morgan:
It's kind of for yourself.
Brad:
Yeah, it's more for yourself. Now, this is when you're working towards reconciliation, you're working towards resolving things, fixing the marriage, and so you can have forgiveness without letting that person in. You can do that. You can forgive someone who has really hurt you without them becoming part of your life. Now. This is about how they become a part of your life after they've really hurt you. The steps necessary to begin to heal,
Morgan:
To reconcile the rules. To reconcile.
Brad:
Yeah. This is so important because many times in couples counseling with couples, when there isn't an affair, we will help them work past conflict. They've deescalated, meaning they're fighting less, and when they do fight, it's less intense, but they're not feeling closer emotionally. Just because there's an absence of conflict does not necessarily mean there is emotional
Morgan:
Closeness and a great relationship
Brad:
And a great relationship. It can still say surface, and that's because generally there is a time in the past where one of the spouses felt abandoned and they really needed their spouse and they felt abandoned. Kind of my term for relationship injury comes from a feeling of abandonment that is accrued by an event or a pattern of behavior during a time when a person really felt like they needed their spouse or their partner
Morgan:
And they just weren't there for 'em
Brad:
And they weren't there. So after we experienced a relationship injury, we put up a wall that keeps our spouse out that says, I will not let you in. I'll not depend on you again for anything. And so we feel like it is easier to do things on our own instead of relying on our spouse. And we have found our spouse to be untrustworthy or dependable
Morgan:
And not safe.
Brad:
Yeah, they're not a safe person in a way. They're kind of dangerous. So we just find 'em untrustworthy, undependable, we quit relying on 'em. A wall goes up and we reason to ourself, it's easier to do life on my own than open up to this person and need this person.
Morgan:
There's kind of a distance that's between you and your spouse. It grows and grows and grows until things
Brad:
Happen. Yeah, it's a big distance. Recently I had a couple where I worked with them on a relationship injury like this, and sometimes they involve health emergencies, pregnancies, obviously infidelity.
Morgan:
Death in the family.
Brad:
Death in the family.
Morgan:
You weren't there for me when my father died.
Brad:
Yeah. Crisis, things like that. Moments when you need somebody,
Morgan:
And that's not always physical closeness that can be emotional closeness.
Brad:
Yes, I need, it's more about the emotional closeness. I need to rely on you.
Morgan:
You weren't there to comfort me or something like that.
Brad:
Yeah, it's usually things like that. But one of the key things is these wounds are there. Sometimes they're not ever discussed and sometimes they're obvious to both parties, sometimes they're never discussed. And if they are, a negative cycle can almost be triggered just discussing it
Because somebody is labeled as a monster and a horrible human being for allowing this to happen. And just the way it's brought up many times it can trigger a negative cycle. The person who's the accused, so to speak, they think, you think I'm a horrible person, you think I'm a monster? And so they get defensive and it creates this negative cycle around it that makes it really hard to resolve and heal from. So we're going to go through the steps here in a second, but why this is so important, resolving these relationship injuries like this, and many couples that come into marriage counseling have 'em. Many couples obviously when there's an affair have these. And so why is it important? Well, just because there's an absence of conflict doesn't mean that there's an emotional connection. So resolving this allows the person who's been hurt to become emotionally connected again and risk relying on their spouse or partner again. And so that's really important.
Morgan:
Let me just for a point of clarity, when a couple has experienced these pains in their relationship, you're saying that they need to discuss those issues and talk about the hurt surrounding that abandonment or those injuries before they can begin to fully forgive and let their partner back in and feel vulnerable with that partner. Is that what you're saying?
Brad:
Yeah, I am saying that. I'm saying in order to really forgive that person and let 'em back in, you have to feel like as the person who's been hurt, you have to feel like that person is safe and no longer going to hurt you.
Morgan:
Okay? And that's what we're going to talk about and that's what we're going to talk about.
Brad:
And here's the secret. If you don't get anything out of this, and you're the one who's hurt somebody, how they get over this, and this is the big secret, is you have to show them you're hurting because hurting.
Brad:
You're
Brad:
Not hurting because you got caught or you're not hurting because they kicked you out of the house. You're hurting because you've devastated them. That's the only way they get past this, and they need an explanation that makes sense. They need to understand your thought process, not you getting defensive, but you explaining who you were, why you did what you did as a way to make yourself more predictable to 'em. That's kind of the whole secret with this. And they need to sense from you that you're really in pain about this. They don't need to sense that you're angry or that you're upset, though you may be that. But what's really underneath that frustration is what really is going on is you're really sad about this. They need to see that sadness, that remorse that you have because you are heartbroken that you've caused this kind of pain. That's how that person begins to let you back in. If they don't sense that you are undependable, unreliable, you're just not safe. So of course they're not going to let you in.
Morgan:
Yeah. And you'll get stuck in this cycle. Talk
Brad:
About, yeah, you're going to get stuck and you're not going to really be able to have an emotionally close relationship or marriage. Again, here's the other thing. Why this is so important is this is what the betrayed spouse needs to heal. They need to know that you're in pain about hurting them, that you're ashamed of yourself, that you feel guilty about this, that you're disappointed in yourself. They need to know that, and you need to show 'em that. You can't just assume that they know that because you feel that way or that the reason you're staying up at night is because you are guilty and you feel remorse. They need to hear it from your mouth. They can't just assume that because if you're up at night and you can't sleep, they may think you're missing the affair partner. They may think that you're still in love with that person and you're having withdrawals from them. You need to be very clear and explicit, I am grieving how I've hurt you. They need to know that. And you can't just assume they know that. You need to show them that. Many times in my office when I'm working with couples, I'll ask, how do you show your spouse you're feeling sad or remorseful? And many times the answer is, I don't. Or if they do, well, I get angry. Or spouse is like, well, no, duh, I don't know that you're upset or you're angry or you're sorry for what you did. You don't tell me that and I don't sense it from you.
Morgan:
All I see is anger. Yeah.
Brad:
All I see is anger. How am I supposed to know you feel guilty about hurting me? You don't ever tell me that. And because they can't do that or they're not doing that, of course the spouse can't rely on 'em again. So Morgan, let's focus on kind of the steps of forgiving a relationship
Morgan:
Injury. Okay, awesome.
Brad:
It's very simple. We're going to go through these steps and remember this, spouses who've had affairs, it's always easier for your spouse to forgive you when you feel your spouse's pain. That's really key. It's also easier when your spouse feels safe that another affair will not happen again. And you have to show, not just have words of apology. I'm sorry, I apologize. But you have to back that up with actions
Morgan:
That
Brad:
Show your're truly sorry,
Morgan:
And you're accountable.
Brad:
Yeah, you have to have that because healing obviously can't take place if the affair is still occurring or they sense that it's still occurring and you have to show yourself as someone who is taking responsibility for this. And so we're going to get in a little bit more detail.
Morgan:
And trust is built over time.
Brad:
Yeah, it's built over time. But this is a huge point in rebuilding that marriage and relationship. And this isn't just a one time event. This is something that you have to show
Morgan:
Over and over
Brad:
Sometimes again, over and over again. Often, I don't know the number of times you have to show it, but I know it's a lot. I don't know if there's ever a limit to the number times you show the pain that you're in. But recently we had a guy that was caught in numerous affairs. He was more distraught about his wife acting very upset than he was about actually healing her pain and he couldn't show her this. So obviously they stayed in a perpetual negative cycle they couldn't get out of.
Morgan:
Do we want to talk about the steps?
Brad:
Yeah, I'll go ahead and start with the first one, Morgan.
Morgan:
Okay.
Brad:
Like I mentioned earlier, the spouse who's been betrayed or injured with a relationship injury, they really need to be able to recognize and articulate the injury caused by the affair. Remember, you want to express these emotions without yelling or attacking your spouse or partner. You need your partner to hear what you were saying without feeling defensive. And also you need to let your spouse know you felt deprived, dismissed, deserted, devalued. You need to let 'em know you really felt abandoned.
And here's how you do that. You do that by tapping into what's called primary emotion. And the best way I know how to explain primary emotion is most of the time we only show secondary emotion. If we're feeling sad, which is a primary emotion, we may show anger. Or if we're feeling sad, we may just kind of shut down and get quiet, or we may show frustration or worry. Those are all secondary emotions. And secondary emotions don't really move a person. And what you want is you want to tap into the sadness that's there, the fear that's there. And you know what I've noticed, Morgan? It's really easy when there's an affair for people to tap into, especially when they've been betrayed, to tap into that primary emotion. But many times it comes out with criticism and attacks as well. You're being vulnerable, but you're also spewing hatred. You're spewing attacks, things like that. And that really makes it hard to heal. You're kind of shooting yourself in the foot when you do that. And here's primary emotions. Here's examples of primary emotion, and there's only maybe six, seven emotions. Talk about the hurt. That's not really a primary, but it helps you access that primary. Talking about the hurt, talking about sadness,
Talking about fear, talking about shame or disgust that you have talking about.
Morgan:
What about loneliness is that
Brad:
That's a secondary emotion. Secondary, yeah. Sadness, fear are going to be primary emotions that you're going to talk about a lot. Shame is going to be a primary emotion. The betrayer will have, guilt is more of a secondary emotion, so disgust with yourself is going to be important. There's also anger is a primary emotion. Anger can be secondary, and I hope I'm not confusing our listeners, but anger can be both primary and secondary. It's primary when it's used to defend yourself. It's also primary when you're using it to enforce your boundaries. And so it's more secondary when it's used to attack someone else. So anyway, those are some examples of primary emotion. There's also positive primary emotions like joy, surprise, excitement. Those are positive primary emotions. But when you articulate this injury that was caused by the affair, talk about the primary emotion that's there, and here's why primary emotion is so important because it moves your spouse,
Brad:
It
Brad:
Causes them to have more of a tender heart towards you. It causes them to feel more compassion towards you. It causes them to have more empathy for you. It causes them to really hear you. Many times in my office when we get into primary emotion, people aren't fighting anymore. They're listening to each other because they're actually seeing the impact that their behavior is having on their spouse. And so that's a key thing. And so articulate, recognize, articulate the injury. If it's a pattern of behavior, try to find an incident that really hurts the most and go after that incident. Recently had a couple, the same couple I was talking about a moment ago where the wife was pregnant and the husband wasn't helping out, and this is a common scenario, but she was doing all this housework and he was watching TV by himself, and she's really kind of doing real physical housework.
Well, she gets an attachment injury from that. And talking about this really makes it much harder when you don't get into the primary. If you talk about the primary, it helps. But what happened with her is he's always been this way. It's a pattern of behavior. And she was able to recognize a one time event that occurred, and it made it much easier for him to realize, oh my gosh, I really dropped the ball. And so it may be a pattern, but there may be one event focus on that event. It helps sometimes resolve this. But if you can't go with that pattern of behavior,
Morgan:
And that was a relationship injury that she felt like he wasn't stepping up and taking,
Brad:
She surely felt hurt
Morgan:
And helping.
Brad:
Yeah.
Morgan:
Okay. Yeah. So the second step here is as the involved spouse or the spouse that maybe had the affair or created the injury, realize that some apologies don't work. Examples of apologies that don't work are maybe I did have an affair, but I guess you expect me to apologize. You can't let this go until I apologize. So all of these are forced token apologies that come nowhere near correcting the damage that's been done by the affairs.
Brad:
And those don't sound very sincere,
Morgan:
Morgan. No. Right?
Brad:
Well, maybe I did have an affair, but there's going to be a huge but huge reason for having an affair. Maybe I had an affair, but you always criticize me for years. Or just something silly.
Morgan:
Didn't scoop the cat box like that one person said,
Brad:
Yeah, it's just silly. But the other is, I guess you expect me to apologize. That's not very,
Morgan:
That's not sincere.
Brad:
No, you can't let this go and dull. I apologize. So here's my apology. And here's the thing is like I mentioned earlier in the show, in order for an apology to work, it's the feeling and the emotion behind it. You need an apology because that's an acknowledgement of the pain that's necessary. And acknowledgement of the pain is necessary. But you have to show them, I am hurting because you're hurting. I'm hurting because I see you hurting from what I did. I'm so ashamed of myself and my actions. I'm so sorry for hurting you.
Morgan:
Not that you're an inconvenience, and your emotions and feelings
Brad:
Are because those kind of token apologies that you gave examples of,
Morgan:
There's one too. I'm sorry you feel that way, or
Brad:
Yeah, that's not a real apology that people can heal from any sort of big relationship hurt.
Morgan:
And
Brad:
To have an attachment injury or relationship injury, you really have to have some serious relationship hurts. And so that ties into what I'm saying here. Those types of apologies don't work. Well, here's five elements of an effective apology. The first is you have to care for their pain. And the second is you acknowledge that their hurt is legitimate. You have legitimate right to be hurt.
Brad:
You
Brad:
Have to let 'em know that. The third is you take ownership of your hurtful actions.
Morgan:
I did this, I did this, and it hurt you.
Brad:
Yeah, you take ownership. Four is you express shame for your behavior. Five is you assure your spouse that you're willing to help them heal. So you have to assure them, I'm here to help you heal. This isn't going to happen anymore. There's no more text messages, phone calls, no more out of town trips with this person. No more.
Morgan:
You take my phone, take my email account passwords, please.
Brad:
You're showing yourself willing to be a healer. And the people who heal the best are able to do this. The couples that heal the best are able to do this. And granted, not every couple who's had an affair is in this place coming out of the gate to be able to do this. But this is where you should be working towards. And like we talked about before in previous shows, many times people who have an affair, they're kind of burned out. But once you're back in it, you need to be able to do this in order to heal. Those are elements of an apology that make it effective. And again, the big idea is they have to sense from you, the one who did this, that you're in pain
Brad:
Because
Brad:
They're in pain. Your pain is tied to them hurting, and it's not I'm in pain. I got caught or anything silly like that. I'm in pain because I see how hurt you are.
Morgan:
And it's sincere and it's sincere
Brad:
And
Morgan:
Honest. Yeah. Let's talk about this next one, talking to the involved spouse. Again, help your husband or wife understand your personal weaknesses and emotional vulnerabilities that contributed to the affair. So explain these weaknesses and vulnerabilities without blaming your spouse for the affair.
Brad:
Really
Morgan:
Assess where did you get permission? How did things degrade over time for you that caused your boundaries to be lifted and caused you to fall into something like an affair?
Brad:
Yeah. Another way to think about this is you want to try to help your spouse understand why you responded the way you did at that moment.
Brad:
Yes.
Brad:
And really what that's about is you're going to have to dig deep and you may even have to discover for yourself how that evolved, how you got to that place.
Morgan:
Yes. How those boundaries degraded. Exactly.
Brad:
And think about this though as making yourself more predictable to your spouse. And what I mean by that is you are dangerous to them after an affair. They're scared of you. And so you have to talk about this in terms of helping them see you is less dangerous. They have to understand your thought process, where you're coming from. They have to understand a great deal of that, and it has to make sense to them. And so you may have to dig deep, discover what's going on and share that and discuss that because part of that healing is you're just making yourself more predictable,
Morgan:
More of what was happening for you inside versus the environment. Because that environment could be accusatory. It could be saying, well, you were pregnant and I was lonely, and then I decided to do such and such.
Brad:
They have to just, the best way is you're just making yourself more predictable. Here's my thought process. Here's what was happening. Here's what's happening. Because you're less dangerous. They can read you better. And understanding that helps them know why this happened, but also they can feel more protected from it happening again. And then the next step after explaining that you want to really recognize their pain and you want to apologize. And again, the elements of that apology are caring for their pain, acknowledging that their hurt is legitimate. Taking ownership of your hurtful actions, expressing shame for your behavior, sharing your spouse that you're willing to help them heal. And when you do that, it's about acknowledging their pain and you helping take care of it. You want to take ownership of your actions and you want to show that you're willing to do whatever it takes. Lemme say this apology isn't about the one who had the affair. It's about I'm showing you my pain. And let me say this, Morgan. There's some individuals who've had affairs who were really just so disgusted with themselves. It takes a lot for them to dig deep and show this kind of remorse. And because they feel it
And it's there for them, they just assume that their spouse knows it. Let me repeat that. Yeah, you may be feeling it and it may be very legitimate in there and real, but your spouse has got to see it from you.
And this is something that sometimes you're going to have to initiate. I'm really sorry. You're going to have to bring it up on your own and talk about it, because when your spouse feels like you're not sorry for it, and they're going to live in fear of you and they're going to stay at that place where the wall is up, they're going to stay guarded. They're going to stay afraid of you, and they're going to stay afraid of it happening again. And so recently I had a couple where the husband, the only time he's ever able to do this is when he's in our office in therapy. And the wife loves coming to counseling because of that. But outside, he doesn't do that. And it actually causes him to stay stuck in the negative cycle because she's afraid of him and it's very real fear and naturally. And so it makes it really hard for her to trust him because she doesn't see that as often as she needs to see it
Morgan:
Outside
Brad:
Of counseling.
Morgan:
Outside of counseling, him being open and
Brad:
Him being open and then sharing that he is in pain because she's in pain and it's there. It didn't take a lot of probing to get it out, but it needs to be something that initiates, he initiates any shows. Morgan, do you want to do the last one?
Morgan:
Sure. So we talked about, well, we also have injured spouses. I mean, do you accept the apology? If you can at this point, the relationship can begin to move forward and you'll be able to leave behind the resentment.
Brad:
You'll be able to start leaving behind the resentment. You can start letting yourself get closer. But again, a lot of that is based on the betrayer. Where are they at? The one who did this? Are you making them feel safe? Are you there acknowledging the pain? You care for their pain? This isn't a onetime thing. I know we're kind of talking about it in terms that there's these steps. It's like a onetime event, but really what? It's ongoing.
Morgan:
It's ongoing
Brad:
And it needs to continue to happen every day as much as the one who's been betrayed needs it.
Morgan:
And sometimes these apologies, they just don't penetrate. They don't go to the deepest part. They have to hear it over and over sometimes because it's very hard. And they have these questions that keep coming up and keep coming up until they can fully process it. It's going to take some time.
Brad:
Step six is, do you accept the apology that you just kind of went over? Step seven is discuss as the one who had the affair, how you intend for this never to happen again, or the one who abandoned your or hurt your spouse. How you never intend for this to happen again. And so you need to be specific about what you expect moving forward and what you can't tolerate happening. Obviously, healing won't be able to take place if it's still occurring. And these are the steps for healing, working through relationship injuries like affairs, even other types of relationship injuries, really anything that's created a wall and emotional distance. And it doesn't have to be things as big as affairs to do that. And these steps that we've gone over, they work with affairs and other relationship injuries. This is a thing that really needs to take place early on in the affair recovery process. And then
Morgan:
What if your spouse is not available to forgive if they're not
Brad:
Healing by yourself?
Well, that is a fantastic question. And just briefly, I want to go over one way to heal, and really it involves letter writing. You want to just take out a pen and paper and here's a sample of what you can do. You want to write them a letter saying you forgive them, and you can say, dear so-and-so with all of my might, I forgive you for all the betrayal and hurt you have caused me. I've released the burden of ill will towards you now and free me and you to live without this guilt, resentment, hatred, anger. And so that's kind of a sample. Lemme say this, if you share some responsibility for hurting the betrayer or whoever else, your spouse who left you, or if you carried extreme resentment, you might ask them to forgive you as well. And you can include a statement when you write this letter about forgiving yourself and sign it and date it. And then some people find it helpful to burn it.
Morgan:
Yeah. It may not want to send it, and you want to maybe have to write it over and over every day until it becomes true.
Brad:
Yeah. Write them a letter letting them releasing them. Thanks for listening to Healing Broken Trust. If you like this episode, you can always get our show notes and more details and links to the resources we discussed@healingbrokentrust.com. Also, as long as you're online, head on over to healing broken trust.com/retreat for details on an upcoming one-on-one retreat with me. If you like us, please subscribe and leave a review for us on iTunes. As always, everything discussed on this podcast is either my opinion or Morgan's opinion and is not to be taken as relationship advice because I'm not your therapist, nor have I considered your personal situation as your therapist. This podcast is for your entertainment and education only, and I really do hope you've enjoyed it. See you Until next time.
