Ep 9: 6 Ground Rules for Discussing Infidelity

Brad:

You're dealing with it, avoiding it keeps you stuck in it. And so this isn't easy. These are simple ideas. It's not easy to work through an affair, but the ideas are simple.

Morgan:

That

Brad:

Doesn't mean they're always easy to do, but doing them will help you recover and give you what you need to do to recover.

Morgan:

Absolutely.

You are listening to Healing Broken Trust podcast with Brad and Morgan Robinson. This podcast is where we talk about healing from affairs, infidelity, trust, and cheating in your relationship if you're wanting to heal your marriage. This podcast is for you. This episode, episode nine is where we talk about ground rules for talking about the affair. And just as a reminder, go to healing broken trust.com/episode nine to download your free resources. Again, that's healing broken trust.com/episode nine. That's the number nine. Download your free resources and walk through those resources as you listen to these episodes. You'll find it's very, very helpful. So let's get started. So Brad, what are we talking about today?

Brad:

Well, today we're going to talk about really the ground rules of how to talk about an affair. We've gotten a lot of emails at people asking basically that question. We're having trouble in this area, so we want to give you guys listening ground rules on how to talk about an affair to really make this the most productive time because how you talk about it really sets the stage of your affair recovery process. And so ground rule number one is just that how the affair is discussed, it's more important than really what you talk

Brad:

About.

Brad:

And this needs to be a process where the discussions are handled in a way where both spouses feel respected and Morgan, so many people talk about an affair and it becomes so in a way counterproductive because there's arguing and fighting about it and people don't really get the healing that they need or they don't heal the way they need to. So what we're talking about is the ground rules and really that main idea how we talk about this, it's so important because it's really even more important than what is said if it's done in a way with caring, compassion, honesty. Honesty is really important. If we have that, it's really going to help us in their fair recovery

Morgan:

Process a lot more successful. And how you talk about it, we'll also shape what is said. I mean if you are just haphazardly talking about it and you just talk forever and ever and ever, it's going to be a lot more difficult to control your emotions. And then in turn, you're going to say a lot of things that are hurtful.

Brad:

And so we're going to have some ground rules. So number one is just knowing this is an important piece of the process and what we say isn't really as important as how we talk about it.

Morgan:

Yeah,

Brad:

Exactly. And the reason I say it needs to be done in a way that's respectful with compassion is for the injured spouse, we need the betrayer to become the healer for us. And if they feel like this isn't helpful, they're not going to be honest and they're not going to share. And this needs to be productive.

Morgan:

And so it's really important to set aside intentional time to talk about the affair. And that's really ground rule number two, setting aside that time is so important. In the beginning you'll find that you want to talk for hours, but as the process of healing moves forward, you may find that the longer you talk about it in any given period, your conversations begin to be less and less productive.

Brad:

You should schedule time to talk about this because this is one of those things in life, just like exercise or dieting, where if you're not intentional about it, you're probably not going to do it as the betrayer. You're just going to want to avoid it.

Morgan:

Well, you've said at certain points cut it off because it'll be much more productive that

Brad:

Way. And I'm going to get into that later more specifically. But the idea with this is sitting aside, time gives you a break from dealing with the affair and in the beginning of the process of a fair recovery, what you're doing, most people find themselves talking about it for hours as time goes on, especially in the first weeks in the beginning. But as time goes on, people find themselves, we need a break from this. We still got lives to live lead. We still have things that we got to do. We just want to enjoy each other's company and have fun. And so setting aside time where specifically discuss this.

Morgan:

Yeah, exactly. And sometimes those intrusive thoughts that happen with the betrayed spouse, it can be very, very difficult. They can get into this cycle of asking the same question, same question, and then feeling like they're not getting anywhere. So it's kind of difficult if you like something you've said, something I've heard you say is that after 30 minutes, those conversations become kind of unproductive. Is

Brad:

That correct? Yeah. Well, as you go on longer it can be unproductive.

And so the next idea or the next ground rule is that the spouse who had the affair really needs to have what's called a purge session or a vomit session. You really need to get it out. You need to get all the details out, you need to get everything out. And the sooner this comes out, the better. It's always better if the betrayer discloses information rather than an affair partner tells the spouse or they'd stumble upon it. It's always better if that person says, Hey, I had an affair. This is what happened. And gives you the details of it. What's not helpful though is when the spouse who has been betrayed has to be a detective and has to really look for answers. They feel like they're getting stuck. They have to be a detective. They have to look for answers. They have to kind of hunt, they have to snoop around. You're not doing well in the air recovery process if that's happening. And part of that is the injured spouse has such a need to know, and here's what you're doing by talking about this, is you're giving them knowledge that is really healing for them.

It really helps them. I know when I was betrayed in the past, before I married my wife, completely different person. But whenever I had a chance to talk to somebody about this, who knew the other person and that can shine some light on to help me understand this betrayal better, that was the only time I found relief. Many times that's what this is like for people is the only time they find relief is when this is actually being discussed and they feel like they're getting answers about this. And so

Morgan:

It's a lot easier to build trust that way too, if you're being outright honest and open and just very transparent. Yeah,

Brad:

You're exactly right, Morgan, when you're 100% honest, you're being 100% transparent. I have nothing to hide. Here's what I've been doing this

Morgan:

You I volunteering

Brad:

Information and you're willing to do this.

It's not like pulling teeth or you're forced to do this, but you're willing to do it. When you have that, it's a much smoother healing process. This isn't an easy process, but it's much smoother. And so the spouse that's been betrayed, they need to know that's when they find relief. But part of this though is people don't want to really share or they don't want to purge or vomit because they feel like they're actually doing more damage when they do that. But it's like cough medicine. Sure, cough medicine tastes horrible, but it actually makes you feel

Morgan:

Better. Absolutely. And you may notice that the betrayed spouse asks the same questions over and over and it may be a cue that you're not giving enough detail. It's very normal for the betrayed spouse to ask questions, the same questions over and over. But it may be that they're just trying to process it and they learn something new each time. They may hear something a little differently or they may actually, something may sink in the third time that they hear it. But it may also be that cue that you need to give a little more detail. Maybe you need to give a little more information, try not to hold back and try to just be very patient with that because it's going to be a process.

Brad:

And Morgan, before we go on onto the next one, I wanted to just throw this in there. Somebody this last week said, look, I already know the worst part of this. You cheated on me. Nothing else you're going to tell me is worse, as bad as that. And so it's just a lot of the people who have affairs who cheat because they don't want to make matters worse, they don't want to see their spouse hurting. They will basically suppress information and not want to say anything. And so what happens is they're not talking, they're not sharing

Morgan:

That kind of thing. Yeah, absolutely. Alright, and we're talking about key important steps. Actually we're on the fourth step. They need to volunteer information and the more you volunteer on your own and the less your spouse has to dig for it and dig for it, the better you are in the process of healing. So what would you say is the next one, Brad?

Brad:

Well, the fifth ground rule or one of the ground rules is if the injured spouse attacks the betrayer, the less likely the betrayer is going to be to participate, the less willing they are to participate. And so what happens is, is this gravely injures the couple's ability to recover and that defensive behavior that they have keeps 'em in a posture of self-protection instead of a healing posture, instead of a nurturing, healing, supportive role, they're feeling attacked and they're feeling defensive. They're focused on their own needs. Having an affair is obviously a very, very, very selfish act, very selfish behavior. But what people don't understand is that these people, when they're feeling defensive, they're not in a healing posture, they're still thinking of themselves,

Morgan:

Right? It's like that fight or flight mode where if they're being attacked, the only thing their body knows to do or their mind has to do is I've got to get away from this. I've got to get away from being

Brad:

Attacked. The spouse who had the affair, you have to be honest, you have to be transparent, you have to be willing to do whatever it takes. But the spouse who's been betrayed, this doesn't necessarily automatically give you the right to become emotionally abusive or verbally abusive either.

Morgan:

And it's probably very hard not to be.

Brad:

Yeah, it's very hard not to be, and you feel like this is kind of your divine right. You cheated on me, I get to treat you however I want to. An attitude like that is only going to keep you stuck in the recovery process. And let me just say this in the beginning, it's very hard not to feel a sense of entitlement and not just in the beginning, it could be for several months, but having a sense of entitlement, you owe me that, especially when it comes to talking about this. Those are things that you have to work through. But if you have this, you betrayed me, now you have to walk the line, walk the line, walk on eggshells. That long term does not work out into very good marriage. That works short term when recovering from an affair because it helps, but it's not really the way to rebuild a marriage either.

Morgan:

And that also can be helpful when if you start to find yourself going into that process, into that negative cycle, that 30 minutes, keeping it short, will help you to not start becoming that critical, that angry person.

Brad:

Would you say it's the idea of open limitations? You can bring up a question really at any time as time goes on, and there's still the need to talk about this with open limitations. You're able to talk about it at any time, but no longer than 15 to 30 minutes. Really any question, and we're going to talk about in a minute, the types of questions you don't want to get into and ask. And it's really anything that makes you more obsessive, like sexual details or love letters or correspondence of that type. Just seeing I love you, that makes it worse. But what I'm trying to say is if you find yourself talking about this and it's not being productive, you feel like you're getting angry and heated, there is the need to talk about it. But how we talk about it's so important. So

Brad:

If

Brad:

You find yourself really in the first three minutes not getting anywhere talking about this, you're better off taking a break for at least 20 minutes because again, how you talk about it's so much more important than what you talk about. And the reason I say take a break for 20 minutes is our heart rate gets around a hundred beats per minute. We enter that fight or flight mode, and what happens is blood is leaving our brain, it's flowing to our feet, and we're no longer thinking objectively. We're no longer being really rational. And that's when you're more likely to have cases of domestic violence or people punching holes in the wall or just doing whatever, just doing really stupid stuff.

Morgan:

That physiological response,

Brad:

You have a physiological response. And so if you find yourself getting there, what you can do to make this time more productive is take a 20 minute break. You can turn off the lights in the house, turn down the temperature in the house, drink something cold, and doing those things, breathe deeply from your stomach. Yeah, definitely breathing deeply, taking deep breaths like that just in and out, doing at least six deep breaths a minute.

Morgan:

And that's with your

Brad:

Stomach or 10 deep breaths a minute breathing from your stomach area. And all this does is it helps you cool your body down, helps you lower your heart rate. So this becomes more productive. We're dealing with trauma and when we have trauma, heart rate rises quicker. Things are more likely just to kind of snap. Things are more likely to kind of get out of hand. And so if we follow these steps that I'm outlining, it's going to be much more productive. And as the injured spouse, that's going to help you heal much quicker because the betrayer isn't going to think, okay, they're crazy or Why talk about this? You're letting me know when I tell you new

Morgan:

Information.

Brad:

You're going to snap, you're going to snap. And I shouldn't tell you, and this is what you need to know as the betrayer is, the more they know about this, the better they're going to feel and they're actually getting better. Kind of as we said earlier, it's like cough medicine, it tastes horrible and you have to pinch your nose and tilt your head back and you don't want to really do it. But in the couples who do this or the couples who do the best, and that's why we're telling you to do this,

Morgan:

Right? It's like the healing medicine. You're just talking about it. It's

Brad:

Painful and there's not a better way. There's really not a better way. And so

Morgan:

It's worth it.

Brad:

So these are the ground rules. And so that's kind of where we're at.

Morgan:

Okay, so now we're going to talk about,

Brad:

We're talking about ground rule six.

Morgan:

That's right. Ground rule six, which is basically talk about the affair, talk about what's gone on with compassion and care. One major reason we want to keep the discussions to a shorter length of time. It's because it can become very difficult to keep the conversations productive and kind. This goes back to how it's talked about, but we need to keep our cool the best we can, especially as the betrayer when discussing such heed information or really both betrayed and the betrayer. This doesn't mean we don't have bad moments though

Brad:

That's

Morgan:

Expected.

Brad:

And Morgan, you're right with the trauma aspect that we've talked about the last several weeks, there is going to be people snapping. And what I mean by snapping people getting upset easily, you have the exaggerated startle response. You're going to be,

Morgan:

Those nerves are

Brad:

Exposed. Yeah, your nerves, your anxiety, your heart rate increasing, people are going to be upset talking about this. That's not a reason not to talk about it either,

But it needs to be done in a way, the best possible way where people feel safe, people feel secure, that kind of thing. And so part of this, us talking about it with care and compassion is the injured spouse. What I tell people to do in my office is as you talk about this, really journal your anger on the paper journal, invent your feelings on the paper, and it's just as effective as really talking to somebody about it. You talk to somebody, they're going to be able to give you ideas and feedback. You're not going to get that when you journal or write down your feelings about this. But if you turn, like I've mentioned repeatedly throughout our broadcast today, if you turn and direct your anger towards your spouse in this, they're not going to really want to be there to help you no matter how much shame or guilt they feel, their guilt and shame is actually going to keep them from talking to you about it more because they're like, gosh, I've hurt them so bad and I see them getting angry and upset and

Morgan:

I already feel bad.

Brad:

I already feel bad about it. I don't want to make them feel worse. I'm only going to feel worse,

Morgan:

And I feel worse now because I'm making them feel bad.

Brad:

And so what you need to do is really journal about this. And what I mean by journal is just take out a pen, take out sheet of paper or journal book or a diary. Write in that your emotions, your feelings. Write letters to the affair partner. Write letters to your spouse.

Morgan:

Don't send them.

Brad:

Yeah, do not send these letters and take it outside and burn it. Get it all out. Get it all out of your system. Put it all on paper. You're only writing for yourself. It's nothing that your counselor needs to see. It's nothing that your spouse needs to see anybody else needs to see. You can write prayers to God, you can write whatever you want. But the thing is, the process of writing has the same effect on you psychologically as verbally telling somebody that. And so when you first start this though, there is a side effect. You're probably going to be sad for a couple hours and you're probably going to be angry after you do it for a couple hours, maybe even a couple of days. It just kind of depends, but it's just like cough medicine. It helps you deal with it. And like we talked about when we were talking about trauma, you have to deal with this.

Avoiding it is only going to keep you there. And so journaling about this, writing about it, putting it on paper, what that's helping you do is you're getting it out of your mind. You're getting it on paper, you're not thinking about it as much, but it also, it's going to help make these talks that you guys have much more productive because you're not channeling your anger and these negative emotions onto your spouse who's betrayed you. And they're going to feel like, okay, I can talk about this. We can talk about this more. I'm not saying that you should not tell your spouse, I'm really having a bad day. I really feel down. I'm not saying that you should feel like you have to walk on eggshells around your spouse, either one of you, but if we just kind of always unload on them and verbally bash them, and in some cases verbally abuse our spouse, they have no incentive because they feel like they're only doing more damage by talking about this with you.

But if you journal it on paper, put it on paper, it's going to help you find peace, it's going to help you find relief, it's going to help you find really just that peace of mind and it's going to help you have more care and compassion. It's going to make this a much smoother process. So you got to channel this stuff on the paper, and then what you can do is just take it outside and burn it and you can watch it go. It's just going to bring more closure and more peace. And that's something that you're going to have to do several times. It's not a one-time event, but it's going to be something that you do repeatedly throughout the process for the next several months moving forward. But it's going to bring you healing. And the more you do that, the people who do that the most, Morgan, are the ones who get the best care, who get the most out of counseling.

Morgan:

Interesting. Yeah, that's very interesting. I can see that in my own experience. I've found that journaling is very, very helpful. And it's funny that you say that you'll be upset or angry for a few days and you don't even realize it sometimes that, gosh, yeah, I'm in a real poor mood and it makes sense. I just journaled out on this

Brad:

Book, all these feelings. It is bringing things up to the surface, but that's not a reason, in my opinion, that's not a strong enough reason to not do it

Morgan:

Right. It's a good thing because you're purging, you're getting it out.

Brad:

Well, you're getting it out, you're with it, avoiding it keeps you stuck in it. And so this isn't easy. These are simple ideas. It's not easy to work through an affair, but the ideas are simple.

Morgan:

That

Brad:

Doesn't mean they're always easy to do, but doing them will help you recover and give you what you need to do to recover.

Morgan:

Absolutely.

Brad:

Absolutely. And so basically, journal, journal, journal, the people who do that recover the best. It's going to keep you from getting riled up about this.

Morgan:

Absolutely. And the thing that Brad was talking about with limiting that time that you talk with each other about certain issues, especially if you find yourself going off into getting upset, but as you journal, you can write down the questions or comments, write them down, save them for that time, think them through a little bit because then when that limited time that you have that you've placed that limit, you've placed on your conversations, you're really going to have a more productive conversation. You're really going to have more of your questions answered probably in a more productive way because you've thought them through, you've really written them out and kind of considered, what do I really need to know? What do I really want to know? And then you're able to ask it in a way that's easy for them to answer and for you to follow up and ask further questions to get real answers. So that's a good thing to remember there too.

Brad:

Thanks for listening to Healing Broken Trust. If you like this episode, you can always get our show notes and more details and links to the resources we discussed at healingbrokentrust.com. Also, as long as you're online, head on over to healing broken trust.com/retreat for details on an upcoming one-on-one retreat with me. If you like us, please subscribe and leave a review for us on iTunes. As always, everything discussed on this podcast is either my opinion or Morgan's opinion and is not to be taken as relationship advice because I'm not your therapist, nor have I considered your personal situation as your therapist. This podcast is for your entertainment and education only, and I really do hope you've enjoyed it. See you Until next time.

Ep 16: How to work through anger and talk about the affair without pushing each other away?

Brad:

When I was betrayed, I thought people would tell me I was crazy or nuts and I didn't get the professional help I needed to the way I should have because I was worried about being stigmatized, felt humiliated. I felt different. In some ways, I felt like an outcast. And of course self-confidence took a blow. But injured spouses who've been betrayed know about this pain. They know about some of the symptoms. I'm going to get into that. The betrayer doesn't really understand this. They have tons of guilt. They feel very guilty about what happened. They have a lot of shame about it, and that shame actually can be counterproductive.

Morgan:

You are listening to Healing Broken Trust podcast with Brad and Morgan Robinson, where we talk about healing from affairs, infidelity, trust, and cheating in your relationship from the perspective of a professional marriage therapist and a fair recovery expert. If you're wanting to save your relationship after infidelity, this podcast is for you. And we're officially on episode number 16. We're talking about what is PTSD, what is this trauma symptom of PTSD or what is PTSD? And if you haven't already, go and download episode 15. Listen to the first part of this trauma series. It's a four part series and we're on the second part. Also, it'll really help to download and listen to episode one where we talk about the seven stages of fair recovery process because that is really going to help you as well. But also before I forget, I want to mention go to healing broken trust.com/episode 16. That is the number 16, and download your free resources. That way you can really have some help through this process and we're super excited to have that there for you. So without further ado, let's play the recording of what is PTSD. Brad, can you explain to us what is PTSD?

Brad:

That's a great question. PTSD is really a deep emotional wound. It's really a trauma. People feel like recovering from an affair is hopeless or that kind of thing, and I'm not diagnosing anybody who's been cheated on with that disorder. People have symptoms of that and to be diagnosed with that, it's definitely not by listening to a radio show. You can self-diagnose, but it's really, you need a professional would have to diagnose you with that. But there's a lot of themes and a fair recovery, and one of those is is the betrayed spouse has symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder and people experience that anytime they experience a deep personal wound, that trauma. And that could be when people have been raped, mugged, physically, sexually abused, even when people have been held hostage, hijacked terrorism bombings, seen somebody kill themselves, or seeing somebody die in front of you, torture, sexually assault, surviving a natural disaster.

There's a lot of different things and infidelity isn't in that category of trauma and hurt. And as I mentioned last week, and I want to give you guys hope listening to this, infidelity recovery is not, it's a very simple process, but it doesn't mean it's easy. And what I mean by that is the greatest predictor of overcoming all those different things that I just listed is really having somebody there for you. And part of infidelity recovery is getting the story out, understanding the details of what happened, but also feeling like you guys are both there for each other and that the person who had the affair can be a nurturer and a healer that's going to help you heal. That's basically what PTSD is.

Morgan:

What specifically makes PTSD so hard to recover from? I mean, gosh, muggings and terrorist attacks. I mean that's big. What about a fair recovery and P ts D is so hard to recover,

Brad:

It makes this difficult to recover from?

Morgan:

Yeah,

Brad:

Well, anything I guess, and just a short way to say it is intentional human causes. They're the most difficult traumas to recover from, and that's followed by unintentional human traumas. And so recovering from an affair isn't as easy as recovering from being mugged or witnessing a riot or those kinds of things. And the simple reason for that is the injured spouse thought they knew who their spouse was, they thought they knew who the betrayer was, and the betrayer was someone who was once thought of as safe and dependable. And the pain of that affair hurts worse when injured spouses feel that the betrayer was someone who wouldn't hurt them in a million years.

Morgan:

Yeah, with bombings and things that we've experienced even recently, it's kind of like, it feels like a random act of hatred that's kind of towards everyone, not just a person that might've lost their life or lost a limb. It doesn't feel as it was a direct attack on you, specifically your spouse doing that to you, which it feels more like a direct attack on you as a person.

Brad:

And it's much, much more personal. I depended on you and you turned your back on me. I needed you abandoned me, I needed you, and you left me. And so it's much more intentional. It's somebody, it's much more personal,

Morgan:

More targeted towards

Brad:

Obviously then a freak tornado or a hurricane. Obviously those are painful and that's what makes this hard to get over it. But I don't want to sit here and talk like nobody's ever recovered from this or it's impossible. And then the reason I'm really going over this is the injured spouse knows they're an incredible amount of pain, but they feel like they're crazy. They don't understand that this actually has a name. When I was betrayed, I thought people would tell me I was crazy or nuts and I didn't get the professional help I needed to the way I should have because I was worried about being stigmatized, felt humiliated. I felt different in some ways I felt like an outcast. And of course self-confidence took a blow. But injured spouses who've been betrayed know about this pain. They know about some of the symptoms I'm going to get into. The betrayer doesn't really understand this. They have tons of guilt. They feel very guilty about what happened. They have a lot of shame about it. And that shame actually can be counterproductive. You would think the shame would help them be a healer, but it actually causes them to minimize the affair.

And it's something that we're going to get into in the future. But what happens is they don't really understand this. And a lot of people in the mental health community don't understand this. Pastors don't understand this. What will happen is, is you go to people for help. They don't understand that you have symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder. As the betrayed partner in this, they're going to tell you things like, well, you got to bury it. You got to let go. You got to forgive. And forgiveness ultimately is something that we want to work towards, but you can't just move past it. I wanted to get past it. If I could have, I would've. And so what I'm trying to say is this kind of pain is something that is, it's intrusive. It's intrusive, it's constant, but it's something that the betrayer needs to understand. There is a path forward, there's a way to deal with this. And telling your spouse things like, you got to get over this. You are crazy, you're nuts. And you're doing that only to minimize your own pain, but it has to be done in an environment of nurturing and healing to work past that and just telling somebody they're nuts and crazy actually causes further pain.

Morgan:

I guess my question is how do we work through our anger and talk about the affair without pushing the betrayer away?

Brad:

That's a good question. That's actually a great question. Part of this is how do you work through the pain of this without demoralizing the betrayer? So they don't think that this is impossible situation. There's a couple different things that can be done. The need to talk about the affair, the need to share details, the need to really, what I would call find meaning. What we really need is for both spouses to understand why this happened and for it to make sense to them. Sometimes the betrayer may know before the injured spouse knows, but how you talk about this in a way where both people feel respected is really to control anger outbursts as the injured spouse and having those symptoms, there's a lot of rage. Sometimes it's not even really anger, it's more rage and it's always kind of below the surface. It's always there. And as the injured spouse, you have to be careful with that because your anger is going to push that person away.

Morgan:

It's kind of counterproductive.

Brad:

Yeah, it's really, it's very counterproductive. And something that we're going to get into later is how there's personality traits of people who are betrayers. They're conflict avoiders for the most part, I would say maybe 19 out of 20 in my practice, they are conflict. They do not discussing things that are emotional nature, expressing their own emotions is difficult. Asking for what they want and need is difficult. And so you are basically with that kind of anger and rage, you are bulldozing over this person and it becomes counterproductive at that point to then try to talk to them about,

Morgan:

And you won't get the answers you really want.

Brad:

No. Yeah, well, it's not going to be productive. And so what you need to do is limit how much you talk about this in the beginning after discovery, you're going to talk about it probably hours on end.

Some couples will, some couples won't talk about it at all. But most couples I find they talk about it extensively. They do go into depth about it. And what you need to do as time goes on is try to limit your talks to this, to 15 to 30 minutes with kind of an idea. I call open limitations. Any question can be asked at any time, but you do want to shy away from sexual details, certain sexual details or just re-traumatizing. And what I mean by that is peeling the scab off and re-put salt on the wound when you do that. And then just love letters or correspondence of that type. You want to stay away from that area, but anything else is free game. The limitations part is just talking about it for 15 to 30 minutes because as people talk about this, you can get heated, you can get upset, and when you're talking about this, you need to really just limit that interaction.

Morgan:

Yeah. Because the more time that you spend talking about it, you start going in a big circle asking the same question over

Brad:

And over, especially if you're not getting any help. And that's where professional help is necessary with somebody who knows how to walk you through this. So when people run into that situation getting their spouse to talk, it's making sure you're not bulldozing over them.

The betrayer is probably somebody who doesn't like conflict. You've got to be able to talk to them in a way that helps them open up and talk about it. They normally don't want to talk about it. They don't feel like they can be forgiven. And so part of this is letting them know that you see what they're giving you, see the effort and letting them know in no uncertain terms that you guys are working towards forgiveness. And right now that may not be possible in your situation, but kind of the end goal is, I want to put this behind us, I want to put this behind me as the injured spouse and forgiveness is something that we're working towards. Forgiveness occurs in stages, we're working towards it. Maybe we haven't reached full forgiveness yet, but I want that and I need you to be here with me, you as a betrayer to help me work through this so we can reach full forgiveness. But many times betrayers will feel, gosh, there's nothing that can be done to fix this. I have done the unforgivable sin. They can't let it go. They're letting me know they can't let it go. And so what I'll encourage people to do as well is as the betrayed, as the injured spouse, really to keep a journal just for yourself to write in and express everything in there and get it all

Brad:

Out.

Brad:

That's when you can say the mean ugly, hateful things you want to say. But if you say those things that you would normally put in a journal and reserve that your spouse is going to lose all motivation, they're going to feel like, I can't really be there. We can't heal from this. And they're going to stop trying. It's really what's happening is learned helplessness. They keep butting their heads against the wall and they feel like this wall will never come down. And so they quit trying. And so as the injured spouse, you need to use the policy of open limitations, keep a journal, but also let your spouse know, I do want to forgive you. I want to work towards this. I am not happy with being this upset and I'm not trying to push you away with my anger.

Morgan:

When you are feeling these feelings that it's a natural process, it's kind of like when you are just so upset and you naturally avoid any kind of painful feelings. And so we don't want to go there so we don't talk about it or we just don't want to talk about it. So we just kind of suppress it and we avoid it and we push it back. But the natural process is to feel this pain and eventually it will subside after getting help, after talking about it, after finding meaning and finding resolve. But talking about in the same vein, learning your spouse or significant other has cheated on you is a life altering event. You talk about the injured spouse, not only feeling numb and avoiding talking about the affair, but also avoiding other situations as well because of this pain. And I mentioned significant other because before I met and married you, my handsome husband, I was cheated on by someone I dated.

I remember walking down the hall and seeing him with her and just feeling devastated. But it's not until now looking back that I realized the way I dealt with it was avoiding activities that I enjoyed and I used to participate in and avoided people, and I just avoided every social activity that I loved and I just became very depressed. And in the book, the principles of a Fair Recovery, which you and I got together and wrote, you talk about restricted range of affect. What is that? And can you kind of elaborate why is it that we avoid these situations and why is it that we just don't feel like talking about it and we kind of suppress these feelings? And how important is it to talk about this?

Brad:

Yeah, that's a good question. Part of this is, lemme back up to kind of answer your question, because the affair is so painful, it makes sense that we would try to logically numb feelings about it. Something I try to do in my office is to help couples understand you cannot numb painful memories without also numbing the good memories as well. And not just good memories from their relationship, but from their life. So the injured spouse, they try to suppress all feelings in order to numb the painful feelings from the affair. As a result, injured spouses often avoid pleasant activities, including those they once enjoyed before the discovery of the affair, maybe even things like traveling, hobbies, relaxation.

Morgan:

So they're rewriting the whole history of the relationship at that point in their mind.

Brad:

Yeah, that's what they're doing. But because they're trying to avoid, because they're in so much pain and torment thinking about the affair and the obsessive thoughts that go with it, they just want to numb out that pain. And so what they do is they numb out those painful emotions, but they numb out the good emotions. And so then they start avoiding pleasant activities they once enjoyed

Morgan:

Because maybe it reminds them of the person that they were together with or I wonder why that is.

Brad:

It could be that, but I mean it's really that simple. It's you're hurting, you go numb and then depression can build and then you slack, motivation,

Morgan:

That

Brad:

Kind of

Morgan:

Thing.

Brad:

So things such as traveling, hobbies, relaxation, finding pleasure in their kids isn't as enjoyable. So after the affair, betrayed spouse will say, I don't know how to have fun or enjoy myself anymore. So betrayed spouses commonly feel detached from other people. After going through an affair, people often assume that they are now different and that no one could possibly relate to their experience. They feel like they can't talk about this, but what happened, what the partners did for fear of judgment, they feel like keeping the secret about the affair leads them to feeling further disconnected from others. They no longer feel comfortable in social situations, and so they avoid gatherings or just don't find any pleasure in them. But the problem is the injured spouse isn't connecting with others because they don't feel like they're able to be emotionally open. And so affair recovery is difficult when the injured spouse is struggling to contain memories of the affair. And part of feeling emotionally numb is having what you just asked me about a minute ago, restricted range of affect. And that basically means the injured spouse could have trouble laughing, crying, or loving, and the injured spouse might assume she has lost the ability to feel compassionate, intimate, tender, or sexual. However, at some point, the healthy expression and experience of grief and pain must occur. So we have to have that.

Morgan:

Oh yeah, you

Brad:

Have to, for her to become

Morgan:

Talk about it,

Brad:

It has to be a healthy expression of grief and pain for them to become healthy and emotional individual once again. And so the injured spouse's recovery is vital for the recovery of the marriage after the affair.

Morgan:

So it's kind of like when you've discovered that your spouse has done this, you've talked about going back and forth, people go back from rage to anger, to sadness, to numbness, to just all these different feelings. So the suppressing of feelings is kind of one of those back and forth. So maybe they feel that one minute and then the next minute they feel rage. Is that kind of accurate? A back and forth

Brad:

Kind of healing comes in waves, meaning in the beginning you're an emotional rollercoaster, healing's up and down. Lemme just close a stop before we into our program. Here's the thing. Not only do injured spouses feel disconnected from other people, but they also feel disconnected from their future. They're unable to imagine or look forward to a normal happy life and relationship because they don't feel like they can have a normal life. Again. Many times they don't make plans about the future. Instead, betrayed husband probably has pessimistic expectations about what the future holds, including the affair happening. Again, this outlook is called the doomsday orientation because no matter how good life seems, the betrayed spouse believes troubles right around the corner. So that's kind of in the future. They're always like, well, this is always going to fail, this is always going to be bad. And they kind of have a pessimistic outlook. But let me say this before we finish. If injured spouses are stuck in the past, revisiting and reliving the affair with the unresolved pain, guilt, anger, grief, or fear, and trying to desperately block those feelings out, they will undoubtedly lack the energy or interest to plan for the future of the relationship. But when they try to block out the past, they block out the future as well.

Morgan:

It's a very thin wall that they put up that blocks those emotions because you talk about normal thoughts and memories, you file them away, you talk about them, you kind of work through them, and then they go into this happy place that's like a Rolodex that's filed away,

But with this emotion, this pain caused by infidelity, it's just right there. You haven't talked about it, you haven't worked through it yet, and it's just right there behind this thin wall that has these cracks in it. Right? And bits and pieces kind of word out, for lack of better words, kind of like a full glass of water where it's at the very, very top, the water's right at the top of the brim. You shake it just a little bit, the table just a little bit, and it overflows with just, and it's kind of like our feelings and our emotions. Would you,

Brad:

Yeah, I would say that's accurate. But here, let me say there's good news here. The first three months after the discovery of the affair is the hardest period. That period is when most symptoms of PTSD are at their worst, and so that's usually the hardest period for the betrayed spouse because the emotional rollercoaster is at its highest. And so for half of individuals, they're able to really see significant improvement after the first three months.

And a lot of that is really dependent upon how well the betrayer, how well they are to be supportive emotionally, be honest, be transparent, and really display the attitude of whatever it takes. That's really the big key we have to have with that. Okay. Thanks for listening to Healing Broken Trust. If you like this episode, you can always get our show notes and more details and links to the resources we discussed at healingbrokentrust.com. Also, as long as you're online, head on over to healing broken trust.com/retreat for details on an upcoming one-on-one retreat with me. If you like us, please subscribe and leave a review for us on iTunes. As always, everything discussed on this podcast is either my opinion or Morgan's opinion and is not to be taken as relationship advice because I'm not your therapist, nor have I considered your personal situation as your therapist. This podcast is for your entertainment and education only, and I really do hope you've enjoyed it. See you Until next time.

Ep 22: "If You Cheat On Me I’ll Leave You” And Other Things People Say That Challenge the Conversation

Brad:

You're going to have to discuss this multiple times, and this is what people think is, gosh, we've talked about this. I've already answered that question once. I've already answered it a few times, but now we're on the 20th time. You've asked that and I've answered it and I haven't changed it. Now we're on the hundredth time. Now we're in it into the hundreds of times. But here's the thing though, with this is the injured spouse. For them to overcome the trauma and really to recover from this, you do have to go through this.

Morgan:

You are listening to Healing Broken Trust podcast with Brad and Morgan Robinson, where we talk about healing from affairs, infidelity, trust, and cheating in your relationship from the perspective of a professional marriage therapist and a fair recovery expert. If you want to save your relationship after infidelity, this podcast is for you. You've made it to episode 22 where we address the O. So important question of how do we talk about the affair. Some say it's not important to talk about the affair, that it's useless and will just make things worse, and others say you must talk about it and you can't heal without talking about it. So we're going to lay the myths to rest and talk about what really needs to happen for you to fully recover. Also, we want to hear from you and get your perspective on things. So if you want to share your thoughts or maybe you have some questions, then go on over to healing broken trust.com. Click on the tab called Weekly Calls and leave a voice message for us there. You can also download the free resources that go along with this episode@healingbrokentrust.com slash episode 22. That's episode and the number 22. And let's get started.

Brad:

This show we're talking about how to recover from an affair, the steps that need to be taken to recover the time. Basically everything that a person needs to know to work through this. We are discussing that in detail, in depth, and so you're not going to really hear this anywhere else. This is one of the big issues that people struggle with. We are here to help you guys work through this. In fact, we had an email that was sent into us that really, I think I've heard a lot from people, and I'm glad somebody sent this in. And it basically is this, Brad, how do I talk to my wife about this? She told me before I had this affair. I never want you to tell me if you've ever cheated on me. I don't want to know that because I've been betrayed by someone else before in a previous marriage.

And really to answer that question for that person, I would say most people before they're betrayed, they do not want to know any details. They would rather just not know because what I don't know is not going to hurt me. But after people know they've been betrayed and they know they've been cheated on, most people want to know in great detail about the affair. And so it's kind of different rules. Usually the person who's been betrayed, sometimes they'll say things like, I will leave you if you ever cheat on me, if you ever sleep with anybody else, I'll leave you. But after an affair, after you're really dealing with it and you're not in hypothetical situations, most people choose to stick around and try to work on it, and most people want to know about it because that's only way they find relief in healing.

In fact, only about 7% of people don't want to know anything about the affair. They don't want to talk about it. If your spouse falls into that 7% of people who don't want to know anything about it, who don't want to talk about it, you can't make them talk about it. You can't tell them anything about it. You just can't give them information. They don't want to know. And so you kind of only go as far as that injured spouse wants to know and the types of questions that they have. Hopefully that answers the listener question. Morgan, we've been talking about the ground rules on how to talk about an affair, and one of the things we said is how you talk about this, it's so much more important than really what is said. It needs to be in a climate of compassion, care, understanding. And so just to kind recap what we said is people need to schedule time to talk about this.

Morgan:

That's right. Yeah. Set aside that time and that journaling will help you to organize your thoughts and feelings so that you can make that time more productive. You talked about open limitations a little bit.

Brad:

Yeah, we talked about that a little bit last time. We're going to really get into that into detail today. The person who had the affair really needs to have a vomit session where they just get everything out and just purge. Just get it all out there, just get it all out there. And then common reaction is that people find this is not an easy process. It's like cough medicine. We talked about that. If people are talking about betrayal, they get angry, they get upset, and it's like cough medicine for both people

Morgan:

Because the medicine goes down and it's not tasty. It doesn't feel good at all.

Brad:

No, but it helps people get better.

Morgan:

The benefit is definitely seen

Brad:

Over time. And so sometimes spouses who've been betrayed, they can be very emotionally abusive, verbally abusive. And that's why we were talking about journaling as well, is just channel those emotions onto paper. And that way you're not lashing out of your spouse because they feel quite

Morgan:

Abused,

Brad:

Abused, also demotivated,

That kind of thing. The injured spouse is attacking during the discussions. You're only hurting the person who needs to be there as a healer for you. They're not going to be motivated to be there. And basically the last thing we left off with is it's important that spouse is not interrupt during the conversation. Discussing affair can get heated very quickly, and really you should try to do everything in your power not to let this happen. If you can learn just to sit and listen, not interrupt, write down questions, write down comments that you have in your journal, you're going to hear things that you may not hear. If you interrupt, you're going to hear things that you wouldn't hear if you interrupt them. And so that's what we left off is don't interrupt each other. Let the betrayer finish their thoughts, finish their sentences. If you feel like you're catching them in a lie or a white lie, really try to not interrupt them because you're not going to get all the information you need if you sit there and you pounce on them if you think you're making a mistake. And so that's kind of where we left off, Morgan. What are the other ground rules?

Morgan:

The next one really is it's important to discuss the affair in a way that gives your spouse reassurance that you're reassuring them that the affair will not happen again. And that's the most important thing. They need to know why, of course, but they also need to know this isn't going to happen again. It's not a pattern of betrayal and maybe it has in the past, but it won't go any further. So don't avoid or deny the affair or minimize the damage or fall into denial because it will only create more distrust. And that's the biggest thing is you want to create trust. And that's going to take a lot of time. If you as a betrayer find yourself becoming defensive, say to your spouse, Hey, I know I've hurt you. I want to make this better and I'm committed to the process, but I'm feeling attacked and I think we need to take a minute and breathe.

Brad:

Yeah, and Morgan, I'm glad you said that because it's so important in this process, the betrayer needs to be able to come to the injured spouse and just share everything and get it out there. And they need to get it all out

Morgan:

There and trust the process.

Brad:

They need to trust the process. But I like what you're saying. The betrayer needs to be proactive in this. They need to be the ones initiating conversations at times. They need to be proactive. They need to be

Morgan:

Open and honest. You need to take responsibility for the actions that they took, but also help your spouse by realizing that they're hurting and stop them from spiraling downward in uncontrollable anger by going to them and being open.

Brad:

And Morgan, what I like about what you just said is you're showing that important idea of I'm willing to do whatever it takes.

Most betrayers, they want to suppress information, but if you go to them and you initiate conversations about this, you go and you're willing to talk about it. You just tell them information about it. That helps the injured spouse, since they don't have to protect themselves as much, they sense you are here to help me heal. You are here to help me. I don't need to be in a self-protective mode. I don't need to keep my walls up. And so what you're saying is really important. One of the things that's really important almost as a word of caution is if you do not talk about this, if you don't discuss the affair, this is really the best way for people to recover from this is to talk about this, to deal with it upfront, to really just almost hug a cactus in a way. You just have to really deal with it. And if people are unwilling to discuss this, it results in a much slower recovery time increases the chances of divorce,

And it creates more distress. Like I said last week, the more that the injured spouse knows, the more they feel like they're healing. You do not want to fall into the trap as the betrayer of suppressing information. You feel like you're suppressing this because of your guilt. You don't want to make your spouse feel worse, but that suppressing of the information is actually causing them to feel worse, and it's going to keep you stuck in guilt longer. And suppressing information is going to keep you stuck in the fantasy of the affair, the secret of the affair, and those secrets in that fantasy. It's going to keep you from becoming emotionally invested back into the marriage and relationship the way you need to be.

And so the more you share, the more you're deconstructing that fantasy of what the affair was, and it's bringing you more into reality. You are entering the real world, you're entering into reality again, and it's helping you lose those feelings for the affair partner. And it's helping you reconnect. In fact, what it's doing is it is helping you reconnect with your spouse, but it's bringing a new level of intimacy that hasn't been there because there's a new level of honesty. You're being more open about your feelings, you're being more open about what you need from your spouse. And so that's why this step of talking about the affairs is so important.

Morgan:

Yeah, absolutely. But also the next point that we wanted to make was betrayers will need to revisit many different aspects of the affair multiple times. We've talked about that on the show quite a few times. Those obsessive or intrusive thoughts that you keep asking the same questions because you find and learn new things each time you ask the question. But discussing how they met with the affair partner once will not accomplish. It's usually more than once, typically that they'll ask the same questions, but each time it's discussed, you'll learn something new and that'll in turn help you to recover. For many couples, it does get annoying that they have to revisit the topic again and again, but involve spouses. The betrayer must maintain their composure. You must maintain your composure and let your spouse know that you're there to help them to heal and to recover. It's a huge, it's going to make a huge difference.

Brad:

And Morgan, one of the things that you said that's real important is you're going to have to discuss this multiple times, and this is what people think is, gosh, we've talked about this. I've already answered that question once. I've already answered it a few times, but now we're on the 20th time. You've asked that and I've answered it and I haven't changed it. Now we're on the hundredth time. Now we're in it into the hundreds of times. But here's the thing though, with this is the injured spouse, for them to overcome the trauma and really to recover from this, you do have to go through this. The injured spouse, it needs to be talked about. It's wrong for professional to tell somebody, look, it's been six months, it's been a year, it's been five years. Never bring it up again. That's just absurd. And it really shows a lack of understanding of the trauma recovery process for somebody from this type of particular trauma.

Morgan:

And the time that's passed, I mean, it could be two years, three years, 20 years, but pain is still there.

Brad:

Oh, yeah. Time doesn't heal

Morgan:

Anything. It's discussing it. It's talking about, it's working through it. I mean, some healing may occur, but the full healing,

Brad:

No, not the full healing. So people need to talk about it multiple times. There's different reasons why people need to talk about this multiple times or the same question multiple times. I would say the first reason is there's shattered assumptions that the injured spouse has about the betrayer. I no longer feel like I know who you are, so they're trying to reconstruct who this person is. Part of it is I just can't believe this. This has blown my mind. It's shocking. It's shocking. So just, I can't believe they said this. They did this. You're trying to reconstruct it. Another thing is it's like watching a movie like Inception. I love that movie,

But there's different layers to that plot. But every time you watch a movie like that where you talk about an affair, you're uncovering different layers of it. You're seeing something that you haven't seen before. And the more that the injured spouse can talk about this process, it, it's actually bringing healing to them. It's helping them become more complete. And you as a spouse who's had the affair, that's part of you being a healer, is really being patient with that, showing that you're willing to do whatever it takes. And it's going to take sometimes some questions literally hundreds of times to get answered. And that is frustrating, but that's part of for the maximum healing process to take place. It's going to be several times of just asking the same questions.

Morgan:

And there's one thing that you did mention earlier in one of the points that you made about the vomit session, making sure that you get it out there, get it all out. But one thing that I think ties into this that we need to probably remind people is if you don't vomit it out and new information gets in there, wedged in there where you haven't told everything, it's almost like starting over, like you've said before in the discovery process. It's a shock. So each time you discover a new layer or a new piece of information, it's like, oh my gosh. It's like going right back to the beginning of the hurt of the pain. It's pulled up, the scab has been ripped off. So it's important to get all of that information out there, but then you're still going to have those same questions over and over. But I mean, your story is the same because it's the truth. It just needs to be understood and rethought through again, probably.

Brad:

Yeah. Yeah. Morgan, you brought up another good point too, is really with the point that you made about

Morgan:

Having a vomit session, making sure

Brad:

That it's out there because when you bring it up like this and you have a vomit session or a purge session, you just get it all out and information is discovered later. That person, sometimes they feel like, gosh, I'm just starting over, or they feel like even, what else do I not know? Yeah, what else do I not know? And it keeps them hypervigilant on the defensive or wall is up.

Morgan:

And

Brad:

So that's more of the reason for you just to get everything out at once, as much as you can get it all out there. And that way they feel safer. And sometimes couples do struggle with that where, gosh, we're in this for three months or even a year and I find out something new, or even I've had some couples, five or six years later, they find out something new and it just kind of sets some, brings 'em back down on the ladder. And that's the importance of getting it all out there. And here's the thing too, I want to say about honesty is when you're honest about this, people stick around when they feel like you're being the healer and you're being honest. People do not stick around when they feel like you're being lied to. So if you're worried about, gosh, if my spouse really knows this or if they know that they're going to leave me, chances are they're probably going to stay. As long as they feel like you're being honest with them and you're transparent with them and you're really trying to rebuild things, they leave when they feel like, I'm not getting anywhere, you're not helping me.

Morgan:

And think about how light of a load you'll carry with being able to tell them everything and then getting through it and healing. I mean on your part as the betrayer as well, your conscience will thank you

Brad:

And you're going to have a lot less guilt, that kind of thing. Absolutely. There's some areas that you want to stay away from. We really advise couples to stay away from anything that makes you more obsessive. Sometimes people ask, what do I share? What kind of questions? What do I share? Do I share that I slept with this person? Do I share that on our anniversary, we did this or I did that with the affair partner?

Morgan:

How much information is too much information?

Brad:

Yeah. Well, and here's the thing, there's kind of a protocol for this. There is some things that I would strongly encourage people not to talk about that, but most of the time, whatever the injured spouse feels like they need to know. I'm okay with that. Like I said earlier, only about 7% of injured spouses have no desire for any sort of details. Two thirds want to know great details. And so the three areas are graphic, sexual details, love letters, and anything that makes the injured spouse more obsessive about the past.

Morgan:

And you want to avoid those, right? Yeah,

Brad:

You want to avoid those. And generally the obsessiveness comes from graphic sexual details and love letters

And graphic sexual details are really hard for men, especially because they'll picture their wife with another man, very visual doing certain things, and men are very visual. So it's much to overcome. And I found that people get stuck in thinking about this. Men will get stuck or even women get stuck in thinking about the sexual part because they don't have all the information. And what happens is their mind is just kind of going through all the information they know. And part of that is the sexual details because they're trying to understand what happened, why it happened. And so they're just going through all this information. And part of that's the sexual details. One of the best ways I know how for people to overcome the sexual details is really to understand the whole affair and to get all their questions answered. Because once they have everything answered, they have stopped obsessing of the unknown of the unknown, and it's just obsessing period. And that causes them to get stuck on the graphic sexual details. The other area you do not want to know is love letters. That generally is harder for women. And let me say this though, it's not just hard on women, it's hard on men too, but it's very hard to see that your spouse may be bashing you

In a letter, but praising somebody else, talking positively, someone else, giving them a nickname that you do not have, they may have a different type of relationship than you've had with your spouse. I had a guy that came in a little over a year ago. His wife had an affair last summer, and when they came in, they came in about April or March, and this was really interesting. No healing had virtually taken place because hers was an online affair with somebody in a different state, but he had all this information online and every day he looked over it, just poured over it, read everything, revisited everything. So the guy was very depressed, very obsessed, still not a lot of things made sense. And so there was no healing that took place.

Morgan:

You kind of kept him right there.

Brad:

Yeah, it kept him in the beginning of the process and nine months afterwards, he should have been in a very comfortable place, not perfect, but in a place where I definitely feel like I'm moving forward. I have hope. I know we're working through this. I've worked through a lot of the major part of this. We should have already been there. It's been nine months at ground

Morgan:

Zero,

Brad:

Nine months at a really, really bad place. You want to avoid graphic sexual details. You want to avoid love letters, text messages, emails. Unfortunately, that's how so many people find out about an affair nowadays. It's an online affair where they got kind of these text messages and smartphones and things in Facebook. That's how people find out. But you really want to try to avoid kind of bearing yourself in that and revisiting it because it's only going to keep you held hostage.

Morgan:

So one thing we have here to avoid the scenario, we recommend writing these questions down, sleep on them. Ask yourself, is this information, is it really necessary for my healing? Sometimes just writing it down will help you kind of get through those feelings, but sleep on it.

Brad:

Yeah, that's a good rule of thumb. Just give yourself some time when you get the question you want it answered right away, but give yourself some time

Morgan:

Because

Brad:

With these types of questions, they tend to be re-traumatizing. They tend to open the wound back up. They tend to pour salt on that wound and it doesn't heal. So give yourself some time. You don't need to really jump ahead into this. And I would, to be honest with you, I really encourage you not to ask questions about sexual, obviously, did you make love? Did you have sex? That kind of thing.

Morgan:

Will I need to worry

Brad:

About STDs? STDs, were they on birth control? That's fine. But things like sexual positions, lingerie you really need to avoid. And there's some more graphic questions that you could ask that I don't want to say, but you really want to avoid that because it just keeps you stuck.

Morgan:

Yeah,

Brad:

It retraumatizes you.

Morgan:

So Brad, we are going to out of time here very soon, but would you like to talk about the open limitations?

Brad:

Let say, let me just summarize the last two steps here. When discussing an affair, it's important to do what we call open limitations. Where as time goes on, you're probably talking about the affair for hours on length, especially in the early weeks. You're talking about the affair constantly. But as time goes on, that idea of open limitations is at any moment the injured spouse is able to bring up a question and it's discussed for no longer than 15 to 30 minutes. And part of that is because the longer you go on, the more that's shared, the more that's told can cause people to get angry

Morgan:

Escalation.

Brad:

And if it's not done, you get into that negative cycle of blame, withdraw, one person's blame and the other one's withdrawing. But if you do that, that tends to be the best way to do this. It's just discuss it for no more than 15 to 30 minutes and it helps people really begin to recover and you're just kind of doing it throughout your

Morgan:

Day. And if you do the journal method, like what we had talked about in the last show, if you write it down and you really think through, okay, what do I need to know? What questions do I have? You're going to make those conversations within 15 to 30 minutes. You're going to make them more productive. You're going to get somewhere instead of falling into just a big argument.

Brad:

Yeah, exactly. Just limit yourself to 15 to 30 minutes per question or part time that you discuss this, and you can talk about it really at any time. Obviously not when the kids are around, but really at any time. So the injured spouse has the freedom to ask this really at any time they feel the need to, but you're not discussing it at length. You're able to kind of resume your normal life together

Morgan:

And 30 minutes wraps up and then you're able to go and cool down and really

Brad:

Breathe. And then kind of the next thing is because the betrayer many times feels like this is hopeless, I can't help this person heal. I can't be forgiven. And I notice people when they've dealt with the affair for a long periods of time, like a year or more, they start feeling like, gosh, nothing I can do is going to have any effect on this person. And so this is where that care and compassion comes in. Is what you are doing really helps me,

Us talking about this? You don't understand how much this helps me. I appreciate this. I notice what you're doing. I notice what you're contributing, praising them for what you're getting because it's only going to help them give you more. And so that's important, and that is many times the injured spouse feels like I don't owe them anything, have a huge wall up. That is true and that needs to be worked on, but I can understand where you're coming from. I'm not saying that's necessarily true that you shouldn't try to help them, but if you give them appreciation, give them positive feedback. I notice what you're doing. These small things matter. These things that you're doing matter, they're going to have more motivation and sometimes they're just completely demoralized

Morgan:

And ultimately you will get the healing that you need as the betrayed spouse. So it's a win-win situation. One person feels like they can be open and honest and sharing, and then you also get the healing that you need, the answers that you need.

Brad:

Thanks for listening to Healing Broken Trust. If you like this episode, you can always get our show notes and more details and to the resources we discussed at healingbrokentrust.com. Also, as long as you're online, head on over to healing broken trust.com/retreat for details on an upcoming one-on-one retreat with me. If you like us, please subscribe and leave a review for us on iTunes. As always, everything discussed on this podcast is either my opinion or Morgan's opinion and is not to be taken as relationship advice because I'm not your therapist, nor have I considered your personal situation as your therapist. This podcast is for your entertainment and education only, and I really do hope you've enjoyed it. See you Until next time.

Ep 26: Why Do They Lie?

Ep 30: 2 Communication Sins To Avoid

Ep 34: When the Affair Becomes Public